Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

[RTB333]

I was out at a bar's club night last weekend when my cousin was pulled out by security for being too drunk. I went out immediately to see if he was OK, and, seeing he was in a pretty bad state, decided I would take him home. As I had come out with my cousin, the bouncer outside assumed I must be drunk too, and told me I was not allowed to re-enter the premises. When trying to explain to him that I was not drunk, but needed to go back inside to get my coat from the cloakroom, I was told again (rather more harshly) that I was no longer allowed back in. I tried to call a friend, who was inside the club, but the reception in the venue was terrible and I was unable to get through. Meanwhile, my cousin had started to fall asleep in a chair outside, and was promptly "escorted" to the pavement outside the club. I needed to get him in a cab and get him home, so I text my friend and explained the situation, hoping she would be able to get my coat for me.

The next day, my friend called to say she had only just received my text as she'd turned her phone off. With the venue being closed on Sunday, I decided to get in touch first thing on Monday. Several phone calls and emails later, I finally got the following response from a staff member (the next day):

"I have checked our cloakroom and unfortunately I am unable to locate your coat. The only other option is that someone else has taken it by mistake/stolen it on the night. Again I apologise for this but belongings are left at customers own risk."

In her response, she completely failed to recognise that I hadn't "left" my coat behind, I was unable to get it due to not being allowed to re-enter the venue.

I want to write to the venue and complain, however I wondered whether anyone was aware of my rights in this particular situation? The only additional fact that may make a difference in this case is that the venue is hired out by the company that hosts the club night on Saturday nights - should I be writing to them instead? Or should I write to both?

[miliitant]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

did you get a cloak room ticket for your coat and do you still have it in your possession

[RTB333]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

I did get a ticket that night but handed it to the friend mentioned, who no longer has it.

[bluebottle]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

As such, if the cloakroom in a nightclub accepts your coat for safekeeping, it is subject to the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (as amended). If they lose it, they are responsible and they cannot rely on disclaimer notices to get them off the hook. You have a right to expect them to take reasonable care of your property whilst it is in their possession. The person you spoke to needs a crash course in relevant law before she lands the nightclub with litigation.

[teaboy2]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

Agreed with BlueBottle

Simply reply to them stating what BlueBottle referred to above and include an invoice for the value of the coat, warning them that if they do not compensate you for the value of the coat as per the invoice attached within 14 days then you may take legal action against them.

Also BlueBottle, want law applies when a person prevents you from having access to your own property, is it a tort similar to tort of tresspass? would it also not be unlawful witholding of property (deforcement or Wrongful appropriation as an example)?

[bluebottle]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

Unlawful Detention of Property. It's similar to the situation when a numpty bailiff or HCEO seizes your property, knowing he/she has no lawful authority to seize it, and then refuses to return it. However, if a person knowingly prevents you from retrieving your property, thereby permanently depriving you of it, then it may amount to Theft.

In the OP's case, it is a case of the nightclub failing to exercise reasonable care. The "at your own risk" disclaimer does not have any effect in law unless the nightclub can prove they took all reasonable care.

[enquirer]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

The club voluntarily took possession of the coat (was this service free, or was there a charge? There is a higher duty of care if it is done for reward).

The club issued a receipt (was it individually numbered?).

The owner was prevented from retrieving his property (he was drunk), as was his representative (who was not drunk, but was believed to be). Denying access might therefore have been reasonable. However, as the club were told about the property at the time, that then might impose a further responsibility on the club.

Contact with the club was made rapidly, so "disposal of unclaimed property" is not an issue. If it was not claimed Saturday, it is reasonable to suppose that it should still have been in their possession on Monday.

Were there any disclaimer notices displayed? ("We accept no liability" etcetera).

In my opinion:

The Law relating to Bailment applies. The club assumed possession and a duty of care. See Ultzen v Nicols [1894].

If they issued a numbered receipt, then no-one other than the possessor of that ticket should have been able to claim the coat. As someone obviously did, then the club were negligent, and as Bluebottle has pointed out, you cannot fudge your way out of negligence, so no disclaimer will stand.

If the club were operating the cloakroom at the time (I assume that the cloakroom staff and service were not supplied by the owner of the venue), they would be liable, rather than the owners of the building.

[wales01man]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

Looking at this and speaking as a layman one of the main issue here might be the receipt as the claimant no longer has the ticket would it be reasonable for the club in defence claim one of two things.
!, in the absence of a receipt could there be doubt that either no receipt was issued as nothing was handed in?
2, someone gave in the receipt and claimed the coat?
Not wishing to say anything out of place we only have one side here i know from experiece from running a pub things are not always what the seem ?

[bluebottle]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

If I may expand on what you have said, Enquirer, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (as amended) placed the onus of proof as to whether a disclaimer notice or statement relied on by a person or body corporate in order to escape liability for any act of negligence, carelessness or failure to exercise reasonable care, could provide exemption from liability, firmly on the party using a disclaimer notice or statement, that is, Reversed Onus.

As to liability for actions of the cloakroom staff, even if the owner of the venue, whether they be the freeholder or leaseholder, is their employer or not, they were, nevertheless, employed to provide a cloakroom service for the owner of the venue and the owner of the venue is, as a consequence, liable by virtue of Vicarious Liability.

[enquirer]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

As to liability for actions of the cloakroom staff, even if the owner of the venue, whether they be the freeholder or leaseholder, is their employer or not, they were, nevertheless, employed to provide a cloakroom service for the owner of the venue and the owner of the venue is, as a consequence, liable by virtue of Vicarious Liability.

I think it hinges on who provided the cloakroom service.

If the staff were employed by the owner and provided the service regardless of who was hiring the venue at the time, then as they were providing the service, it must certainly be the owner.

If, on the other hand, the owner simply provided the coathooks, and the hirer their own staff, can it be said that the owner is vicariously liable for the negligent actions of the venue hirers?

[enquirer]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

2, someone gave in the receipt and claimed the coat?

Good point.

[bluebottle]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

If the venue was being used as normal, then the venue owner/operator is liable. If it was a private function, which from the circumstances described by the OP is highly unlikely, it sounds like it was a normal night, then the hirer would be liable, unless the venue owner/operator insisted on their contracted staff being used, in which case, liability turns back on the venue owner/operator.

[thr33stripes]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

Sorry for reopening an old thread, particularly given the amount of information that people have already inputted.

I’ve found myself in a similar situation – I left my coat in a cloakroom, left the venue without my ticket and rang the next day. The staff at the time just took my details and promised to call back later in this week which they never. After contacting them they have said they can’t find it, which I’m finding very implausible and they haven’t got time to search though left coats (I can’t imagine they have many) and that they’re all getting ‘bagged’ whatever this means – this after 2 days of my coat being left.

They have also said that, someone probably found the ticket and claimed it as their own.

I’m finding both scenarios very difficult to believe, particularly given that the venue in question has a reputation for being difficult about lost property (lying about when you can claim/collect it, charging £2 a day for each day the item remains uncollected…this despite they restricting when you can actually collect it!)

Do I have grounds to claim for either, lack of duty of care should they have lost my jacket or theft if someone other than myself has claimed it?

[bluebottle]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

Sorry for reopening an old thread, particularly given the amount of information that people have already inputted.

I’ve found myself in a similar situation – I left my coat in a cloakroom, left the venue without my ticket and rang the next day. The staff at the time just took my details and promised to call back later in this week which they never. After contacting them they have said they can’t find it, which I’m finding very implausible and they haven’t got time to search though left coats (I can’t imagine they have many) and that they’re all getting ‘bagged’ whatever this means – this after 2 days of my coat being left.

They have also said that, someone probably found the ticket and claimed it as their own.

I’m finding both scenarios very difficult to believe, particularly given that the venue in question has a reputation for being difficult about lost property (lying about when you can claim/collect it, charging £2 a day for each day the item remains uncollected…this despite they restricting when you can actually collect it!)

Do I have grounds to claim for either, lack of duty of care should they have lost my jacket or theft if someone other than myself has claimed it?

If the venue you speak of is not careful, the management could find themselves facing civil litigation for Unlawful Detention of Property and/or Unlawful Deprivation of Property or, possibly, criminal prosecution for Theft. Making it difficult for you to retrieve your coat is conducive to the civil torts mentioned. Preventing you from retrieving it, bagging it up and then giving it away or disposing of it is Theft as they have assumed right of ownership you have not assigned to them, you would not have consented to them doing so and they have permanently deprived you of your property. The other hurdle they would have to overcome is the Ghosh Test. This, in a nutshell, requires the prosecution, in a criminal case, to prove whether any reasonable person would consider what the defendant did was dishonest and whether the defendant themselves, taking account of the circumstances, considers what they did to be dishonest. Being an ex-policeman and given the attitude and actions of the venue, I would think it would be very difficult for the venue to talk their way out of it.

Go down the civil route first. Only go down the criminal route, through the police, if the attitude of the venue is one of "we can do as we please and sod you."

[Juliemacgregor]

Re: Coat disappears from bar's cloakroom - rights to complain?

I have a question regarding above thread ..my son paid for his coat to be kept in a nightclub when going to collect it the assistant new to job that wknd admitted she had given it by mistake to someone else on this my son was more concerned with his car keys being in the coat pocket he only has one set ..the club admitted liability and said could he give it a week to see if handed in ...he said he cudnt do without car that long and they said they would pay cost of coat & keys ... Now 3 days later & 2 trips to club to see if handed in they are back tracking saying they will pay for coat but they are not responsible for keys etc ....my son has CCTV proof that his car has not moved since Saturday night but they say they r not paying £180.00 for replacement keys ....where do we stand in this?? Thanks in advance