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ET a little help.

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  • ET a little help.

    Good evening,
    I have an employment tribunal coming up in January for unfair dismissal for an alleged violent conduct.I am just a normal working family man and so this will probably be a bit confusing and daunting for me.
    i will be defending myself and so will be asking quite a few questions in the future.
    But for now i would like to know what they will be asking at the tribunal,Will they concentrate on the allegation itself or will it be more of my claim for unfair dismissal or both?.

    Also when asking my former employer for documents as in the code of management,Would it be reasonable to ask for any medical records of the alleged assault and documentation of anything written in the accident book,Asking for an employees working history appraisal and any disciplinary that they may have had in the past as i know one of the witnesses who claims he saw the incident has had previouse for lying at work,Or am i looking in the wrong direction.
    My first post so please be gentle.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: ET a little help.

    Can you elaborate please on the violent conduct charge, it is important AND WHY HAVE YOU NOT EXCHANGED DOCUMENTS TO BE USED IN THE TRIAL WITH THE SOLICITOR FOR THE DEFENDANT AT THE PRE HEARING REVIEW

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ET a little help.

      Originally posted by miliitant View Post
      Can you elaborate please on the violent conduct charge, it is important AND WHY HAVE YOU NOT EXCHANGED DOCUMENTS TO BE USED IN THE TRIAL WITH THE SOLICITOR FOR THE DEFENDANT AT THE PRE HEARING REVIEW
      A colleague at work assaulted my son who works for the same company,Son complained to hr and lineleader weeks before saying of bullying and harrassment.Son goes to A&E for treatment after bully physically attacks him.I approach the bully and we argue and shout,No assault.Son gets sack for leaving work to go to hospital.I get sack 3 days later for allegedly hitting bully,No warning or witness statements to read.Bully goes unpunished.I appeal and lose.Son appeals and wins.ET1 Claim sent,Reply with details of hearing,No reply from ex employer,Remedy sent to ET And ex no reply from ex employer.Exchange of documents due by 23rd this month.Have heard nothing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ET a little help.

        Sounds like a failure to comply with Civil Procedures Rules, especially, Pre-Action Protocol. Were the police involved at all? What injury did your son sustain as a result of the assault, please?
        Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ET a little help.

          Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
          Sounds like a failure to comply with Civil Procedures Rules, especially, Pre-Action Protocol. Were the police involved at all? What injury did your son sustain as a result of the assault, please?
          Good morning,Injury to son were bump on head,sprained wrists and bruising to back.We took photographs and he has a medical report from doctor who treated him.He won his appeal due to provocation.I am getting increasingly concerned now about the time scale,Spoke to acas last week who said i should hear something soon.I dont like the word should.Surely i must have had a copy of the et3 by now.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ET a little help.

            Forgot to mention no police envolvement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ET a little help.

              you need to contact ACAS in the morning. I would be considering applying for a strike out of their statement of case that they have not provided yet, did you hit the bully and were there any witnesses to the incident stating you hit the bully. what did the employer state in their reasons to dismiss you in their dismissal letter

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ET a little help.

                Only contact with bully is i grabbed his sleeve,This is when i was in the yard on a saturday but not working,I approached him and he flared up at me.It lasted seconds and we went our seperate ways.I get phone call from his boss(sister company)Dont come to work on monday due to suspension.No other reason.3 missed calls from my boss over weekend.Phone call following monday from my boss,Come and see me for a *chat*at 3.30pm.I prepared a statement to produce explaining why we were seen to be arguing.As he read it he slid a letter over table for me to read.
                Quote,Following suspension from work i am writing to invite you to a disciplinary hearing today,At the hearing the question of disciplinary action against you will be considered in accordance with company's procedure stage 3 with regards to violent behaviour where a member of........ was assaulted at the site.Please be aware the outcome could lead to summary dismissal unquote.He got me in the office to sack me.
                When he asked why i had not written anything about the assault in my statement,I pleaded my innocence and was then put on suspension with full pay for enquiries.I did have the right to be accompanied but i declined.Just 2 of us in the room and i was not given any witness statements to back his claim up.
                3 days later a hand delivered letter inviting me to a follow up *meeting* in his office.
                Quote, I am writing to invite you to a follow up meeting at my office.At this meeting the results of the disciplinary investigation will be discussed with you.Entitled to be accompanied.Unquote.
                I phoned acas as the letter did not say anything about a hearing,They advised to walk if it was.And it was.I asked to be adjourned as again i have no witness statements to read and did not know it was another disciplinary.Was told the letter was correct and you are sacked.Just 2 of us in the room and he just scribbled a few lines on a notepad as before.

                Asked for appeal and all signed and dated witness statements and minute notes taken for my appeal.Received blacked out names of witness statements 10 days later and grainy statements for the procedures used.Appeal was 4 days later,I spent hours going through paperwork and can find faults in all of them.
                Armed with this and confident about my appeal,The MD did not seem that keen and was told he had an open mind and would conduct an investigation himself.I did not really get a chance again to put my views accross.The sacking was upheld as he was happy the incident took place.I declined to be accompanied.
                Have been advised by a solicitor it is unfair dismissal and i am now at this stage.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ET a little help.

                  did you have all the investagatory notes (statements)given to you at least 48 hours before the formal interview. (sorry but needs confirmation) any statements from this other chap, did you admit to grabbing his sleeve and any witness to this action

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ET a little help.

                    I admitted grabbing his sleeve in my signed statement.The only witness statements that were given to me were a statement from the bully who claims i punched him in the eye and another witness who can remarkably see through warehouses claiming he saw this.I dont know who the witness is as the name is blacked out on the statement.These were given to me 7 days after my second dismissal.
                    Also these statements are dated 2 days after my first dismissal.
                    Apollogies if this is coming over a bit confusing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ET a little help.

                      are you telling me they sacked you on statements 2 days after you were dismissed

                      any medical reports, if you punched him in the face ten he would have a black eye

                      this is sounding very much one sided

                      may i ask why you grabbed his sleeve

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ET a little help.

                        Yes that is correct,The statements are dated 2 days after my dismissal.
                        I have not seen any medical reports of injury hense my first post should i request this or if anything went into the accident book.
                        I grabbed him purely out of anger,He had bullied my son and gave him a trip to A&E,And started to get angry with me when i approached him.Nothing was being done about him even though my son was going through the proper grievance procedures.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ET a little help.

                          even though you did grab him and that does count as actual bodily harm, the employer has not followed correct minimum disciplinary procedure set by ACAS

                          YOU were not given all the evidence against you at the disciplnary hearing

                          what you have to remember is that by grabbing his arm, that is classed as violent conduct, BUT, the procedures that have followed are flawed and it will be up to the tribunal to interpret this

                          are you representing yourself or do you have a solicitor

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ET a little help.

                            It may be wrongful dismissal as well as or rather than unfair dismissal, ie correct procedures not foilowed.

                            The ET will look at what a 'reasonable employer' would have been justified in doing in the circumstances.

                            It might be argued that if you did not punch him as has been suggested that sacking is a dispoprortionately severe response, as the employer could instead have given you a warning for the violent conduct and dealt with the bullying properly.

                            Have you asked for re-instatement as a remedy in your ET1 ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ET a little help.

                              You have listened to me more than my boss did and i thank you for that.
                              There were so many questions i wanted to put to him but i believe it was all a forgone conclusion,I have looked at acas website and the disciplinary procedures that were not adhered to and have put these down on my et1 form.My biggest concern is neither acas or ex employer have contacted me and time is running really really short for swapping documents.
                              I will be representing myself as i just cannot afford a solicitor as i have no income as yet and not receiving any benefits,Even tried with car insurance with no luck.
                              Had a half hour consultation with a solicitor who claimed it was not violent as i grabbed his sleeve and not his arm.

                              Comment

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