Business rates debt from my previous business

[damian]

Hi all, I had a Rossendales bailiff visit my home today for unpaid business rates from a few years back when I had a small business that failed miserably, the liability is for £82.55 (peanuts I know)
Obviously I didnt let him in or sign anything and he said that if I didnt pay in full then he would sieze my car which was outside (worth 2k) that I use for my current small business (location automotive photographer).
He went back to his car and wrote up a "notice of distress" which he then posted through my door.

The charges on the letter are:

1st visit fee: £24.50 (fair enough)
and under "other" he wrote "attendance fee £150" bumping up the final figure to £256.95.

Can he charge an attendance fee on the first visit? Is this legal?

And can he take my car which is essential for my current business?

Im going to pay the council directly the £82.55 but not sure where I stand with his charges, any advice gratefully received...

Thanks.

[ploddertom]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Is the car insured for business use and are you the sole driver? He has mucked his fees up though, sad person that tenders the bar that he is. I would check with the Council to confirm what is outstanding first.

[damian]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Is the car insured for business use and are you the sole driver? He has mucked his fees up though, sad person that tenders the bar that he is. I would check with the Council to confirm what is outstanding first.

Hi ploddertom, thankyou for your reply the car is insured for occasional business use, its also the family car as I cant afford two vehicles, so not sure where I stand on that. The car is essential for my work, I couldnt operate without it.
The £82.55 is correct according to an SAR request that I got back from the council recently.
Ive written a letter to the LA using a template that says:

I do not believe these fees are legitimately charged as prescribed by The Council Tax and Enforcement Regulations. I would therefore be grateful if you could confirm whether or not you believe them to be fair and honest. If they are not, I would request that the debt be recalled to the council, and all fees removed.

Theres a few more things in the letter but you get the drift, I got the template from this site (Thanks!)

[ploddertom]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

There is case law on the use of vehicles but that is mainly Canadian based although parallels should be OK for UK jurisdiction. Did he not charge you a levy fee? Did he leave you a Notice of Seizure and if so are the details correct?

As for his fees. He could have charged £24-50 where he has attended to levy but no levy was made. As he is saying a levy has been made then what a surprise the cost of that is also £24-50, he cannot charge an attendance fee at the same time.

If you want to pay the Council then pay them the £82-55 + £24-50 being his lawful fees, total £107-05. With Council Tax & NNDR the Bailiff fees are paid first with any balance going towards the debt. As regards your letter to the Council do not be surprised when they come back and say the charges are correct & the Bailiff has done nothing wrong - translated it means they have not a clue!

Going back to the original sum outstanding have you thought to ask the Council how much it cost them to obtain the Liability Order, I ask as it seems to me they went to Court for perhaps £5 only.

[damian]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Looking more closely at the notice of distress, the £24.50 could be the levy fee, plus the £150 attendance fee, his handwriting is all over the place.
The cost of the liability order was £45.00.
So if your correct,he can only charge £24.50 for the levy, and not the "attendance Fee " of £150? Or the 1st visit fee?

Thankyou very much for your advice, greatly appreciated

[damian]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Another thing, has my car actually been "seized" ? He didnt clamp it or anything, whats to stop me moving it far enough away that he wont find it? Or in my garage?

[bluebottle]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

It sounds like you have what is known as Class 1 Motor Insurance, which includes business use. Strictly speaking, the bailiff should keep his grubby mitts off the vehicle. Make sure he sees a photocopy of the certificate and policy showing that the vehicle is insured for business use. The fees are certainly wrong.

[ploddertom]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

If he hadn't "seized" your vehicle he could have charged £24-50 for attending with a view to seizing goods where no levy was made - commonly termed a 1st Visit Fee.

Instead he appears to be claiming a levy fee for "seizing" your car. Levy fees are on a sliding scale depending on the debt owing. In your case it was less than £100 so all he can charge is £24-50 according to the Regulations.

He cannot charge a Levy Fee and a Visit fee together - only one or the other. He cannot charge an "Attendance" Fee at the same time as he must give you an opportunity to pay.

[damian]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Ive now paid it in full including an extra £24.50 that they can pay the bailiff with, as Im sure this is all he's entitled to.
Thanks for the advice, now to see what happens tomorrow if he calls round, I'll have the video cam at the ready

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

I know your not stupid Damian but, I say this to everyone posting they will video the bailiff, PLEASE DO NOT SWEAR AT HIM

They are very good at the I was in fear of my life routine.

If he starts refer him to the council.. see how he likes going round in circles msl:

[damian]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Sound advice puffrose, but Im pretty sure Im in the right so no need to resort to hostility, as you say, that only works to their advatage.
Thankyou

[bluebottle]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

The best thing to do is download the relevant legislation and have it printed out ready so the bully cannot argue, though, many do as they go into denial when they see their corrupt fees being legally flushed down the toilet. And as it happens, here is the relevant legislation, attached to this post.

[ploddertom]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Ive now paid it in full including an extra £24.50 that they can pay the bailiff with, as Im sure this is all he's entitled to.
Thanks for the advice, now to see what happens tomorrow if he calls round, I'll have the video cam at the ready

Can I suggest you ring the Council and check to see if they have received payment & if so will confirm your Liability is fully discharged.

[damian]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

Can I suggest you ring the Council and check to see if they have received payment & if so will confirm your Liability is fully discharged.

I rang them this morning and they said it hasnt shown yet (surprise) but I have a receipt from my online payment. I told them to put a note on the system detailing that the 24.50 extra is to pay the bailiff his lawful fee, and gave them the receipt number from the transaction. Ill phone again to check tomorrow and if it still hasnt shown then Ill go and speak to someone.

Thanks again for the advice

[ploddertom]

Re: Business rates debt from my previous business

It can take up to 5 days to appear. If the Bailiff appears show him a copy of the receipt.