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Thread: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Does it also mean that every motor dealer in the country when taking a vehicle in has to call the former keeper in to collect a letter and cross the road to put it in a letter box?

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    I would be inclined to challenge the DVLA to produce evidence of legislation that they are relying on and applicable case law.

    If when you left the motorcycle with the shop to sell on your behalf, at that point in time you had not transferred ownership to another person or to the shop. However, once the shop notified you that they had sold the vehicle, then DVLA would need to be notified. There is nothing in legislation that states it must be the registered owner/keeper that posts the envelope containing the relevant part of the V5C to DVLA.

    It sounds very much to me that DVLA know they are skating on wafer-thin ice legally. They are also known for and, when served with FOIA requests, have admitted to losing or mislaying correspondence at DVLA.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    This has really been interesting, no one likes to be bullied,
    So prior to this new date I can write to the DVLA and ask them to produce the evidence and applicable case law they will be relying upon in court? or will they save it for the day and have a team of barristers defending them?

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by bluebottle View Post
    I would be inclined to challenge the DVLA to produce evidence of legislation that they are relying on and applicable case law.

    If when you left the motorcycle with the shop to sell on your behalf, at that point in time you had not transferred ownership to another person or to the shop. However, once the shop notified you that they had sold the vehicle, then DVLA would need to be notified. There is nothing in legislation that states it must be the registered owner/keeper that posts the envelope containing the relevant part of the V5C to DVLA.

    It sounds very much to me that DVLA know they are skating on wafer-thin ice legally. They are also known for and, when served with FOIA requests, have admitted to losing or mislaying correspondence at DVLA.
    posted on wrong thread

    D

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by blue1 View Post
    This has really been interesting, no one likes to be bullied,
    So prior to this new date I can write to the DVLA and ask them to produce the evidence and applicable case law they will be relying upon in court? or will they save it for the day and have a team of barristers defending them?
    DVLA are obliged to provide you with that evidence at least one week prior to the date of any court hearing. If they do not, they have not followed correct procedures and risk having the case dismissed or any evidence they rely on being ruled inadmissible. They are also not permitted to ask for details of your defence or ask to discuss your defence with you. I do not know of any case where DVLA have been represented by barristers at a magistrates court. It is usually one "prosecutor" who throws a strop when a motorist tells them to take a hike when they try to get access to the motorist's defence.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    DVLA already know my defence, having sent the letter to them originally prior to the first court date that caused them to adjourn, that went with the template letter (thank you Militant) and a letter from the shop saying they posted the V5C.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    In hindsight, it would have been better to have withheld your defence and made DVLA prove their case. As stated previously, DVLA know full well they are not entitled to have access to any evidence you intend to rely on in your defence. If you keep such evidence from them, invariably, they will drop the case or not turn up at court and the case is then dismissed.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    the letter i did includes all reference to the paul kennerdy case and the appeal to the crown court.
    once DVLA know you are aware of that they drop the case like a stone. it has worked on many occasions as DVLA just cannot afford to have case law go against them.

    the evidence is sound and irrefutable with case and statute law to support all assumptions made on my part.
    that is confirmed how quickly they adjourned the case as DVLA started to crap themself as to its content,
    DVLA will drop this two days before the next hearing, i will put my house on it, i am that sure

    but you are right on disclosing evidence in any other circumstance, but with DVLA, i will make an exception as allready stated, i have case and statute law to support any application

    just my opinion though that has been successful to date with DVLA

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    New date is in a month so we will wait and see - The shop are happy to see this through as they will know what to do next time they receive a letter demanding such a payment!

    It makes me wonder if DVLA should repay all these so called fines? or indeed pass them onto the Royal Mail, Perhaps Royal Mail should go 50/50? Afterall we have had bank charges and PPI.....


    Regardless it is surely high time these were all dealt with on line? just think of the postage and paper along with staff DVLA would save up on, and poor little victims like me would not have to go through this. It could even be a service offered at post offices or a supermarket and customers could get their confirmation there and then! This would not be a consideration though, it is to simple!

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    simple answer

    its revenue

    why do you think the goverment are keeping quiet and letting the goons at DVLA continue with their unlawfull invoices

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    A case on CAG highlighted the shenanigans of DVLA. A young lady refused to play ball with them by post and when some snotty-nosed prat from DVLA asked to see her defence when she turned up at court, she refused, he threw a strop and the case was adjourned. When she turned up at the adjourned hearing, DVLA were nowhere to be seen. The young lady went before the District Judge at the magistrates court, told them exactly what DVLA had done and the case was promptly dismissed with costs awarded against DVLA.

    Either way, if you want to tell the court what DVLA have done, follow the young lady's course of action, but if you want to have Simon Tse and his staff clearing every chemist shop in Swansea of their stocks of Imodium Plus, follow Miliiatant's advice.

    Have fun.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Militant's letter worked for a friend of mine - he received a letter from DVLA dropping the case a few days before it was due in court. Don't panic, see this through - you've done nowt wrong as far as I can see. It's plain daft for them to suggest that no-one but you can post the notification.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    As DVLA have my defence, is it alright for the shop to go on my behalf? it appears the shop have a list of over 200 Reg No's from V5C's they send to DVLA. It actually shows mine twice as the person they sold it to n my behalf subsequently brought it back and some months later and it was sold again!

    The letter from the court says it was adjourned because of further prosecution consideration. If the court does not hear from me or I do not attend the hearing the case can proceed against me. I am taking an exam that day so can it go ahead without me if the shop represent me and will the court hear their evidence without me?

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Its a requisition

    you can send a letter for the case to be heard in your absence but it will resualt in you being found guilty

    i still say dvla will pull out a few days before the trial

    they allways do

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    DVLA have not been in touch - guess we are going to court!

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    When is the court date

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Well I have been to court, it was a busy day for them! I was seen by the prosecutor pre hearing. DVLA say firstly it was my responsiblity to deal with the V5C ( yes they expected me to post it!) despite the shop showing they recorded every V5C that went to DVLA. They also said I should have sent the yellow slip in, which the shop said it would have done had they not sold the bike near enough straight away, I would argue that if I was not sure how long I would have left the bike with the shop for them to sell for me, as I needed the money and could have easily got it back from them along with the V5C and taken it to another motorbike shop? so if I did that and had sent the yellow slip in then what would happen if I took it to another shop? with no yellow slip?
    I was also wrong for not notifying DVLA I had not been notified by them that the ''No longer the keeper'' had been sent to me? within four weeks. -
    Prior to this hearing, the shop actually contacted the new owner of the bike and he said that when he purchased the bike he signed the V5C with the Director of the shop, who explained a new one would be posted to him. (he lost the greem slip he had been given) and recalls coming back to the shop some time later as he had not received the V5C and the shop had contacted the DVLA and confirmed they had not received anything and a V62 would be required by the new owner.

    The hearing has been adjourned -

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Rule 1 - NEVER deal with these DVLA prosecutors pre-hearing.
    Rule 2 - See Rule 1.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    wait for the capitulation letter from DVLA

    WHY WAS IT ADJOURNED IF DVLA HAD SUCH A STRONG CASE ??

    more like the magistrates were uneasy with the case law you submitted

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    I am wondering if the magistrates quietly told DVLA to drop it or risk a dismissal and costs orders against them. It wouldn't surprise me.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    It seems many cases are listed and the prosecutor thins them out pre hearing - they had my statement and that of the shops' that had Militant's reply? how would I respond to the issues they raised?

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    i would just waite now

    DVLA will be in touch, prob asking you to pay their invoice again to drop the case

    i would say sod off

    but thats me

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    I received the same letter in the post today.

    I sold a van to a friend of mine roughly 5 1/2 month ago. he has received his logbook through the post.

    Can anyone help me out on what I should expect. I have spoken to the Nottingham enforcement center, they advised that I write to them and that I would receive a reply within 10 working days.I was thinking of sending Miliitant letter in but unsure of the consequences if they still proceed. my day in court is for the 22nd of this month.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Blue1 any update on your case since the adjournment ? Was another date set ?

    My Son has recieved one of these requisitions and I know he sent it back as I took him to the post office. I drafted a letter similar to millitants and they questioned the text as their form says 'deliver' and not 'serve give or send' and as it said deliver it was his responsibility to ensure it had been delivered by phoneing them , at this point I pointed out the oxford english dictionary (permissible in court) includes the word send in its definition of deliver and that I hadnt seen a statute requiring him to ring them. They still wouldnt accept this and said something along the lines of it is necessary for the previous owner to check or they wouldnt be able to keep there data up to date. Our final reply was a scale of charges we would be claiming as costs ! (cheeky but fed up of them harrasing an 18 year old when he hasnt done anything wrong !)

    I am more than happy to go to court with my son as a witness to state on oath it was 'sent' as per statute So we are going to do the not guilty thing and I am thinking to tick the box requiring their witness to attend (the person completing the form) .... any thoughts on this, I have heard of them phoning you to ask why you want them to come and wont just accept there statment being read
    Last edited by scooby0606; 12th January 2013 at 20:20:PM.

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    Default Re: Dvla court summons - failure to notify change of ownership

    Quote Originally Posted by scooby0606 View Post
    Blue1 any update on your case since the adjournment ? Was another date set ?

    My Son has recieved one of these requisitions and I know he sent it back as I took him to the post office. I drafted a letter similar to millitants and they questioned the text as their form says 'deliver' and not 'serve give or send' adn at it said deliver it was his responsibility to ensure it had been delivered by phoneing them , at this point I pointed out the oxford english dictionary (permissible in court) includes the word send in its definition of deliver and that I hadnt seen a statute requiring him to ring them. They still wouldnt accept this and said something along the lines of it is necessary for the previous owner to check or they wouldnt be able to keep there data up to date. Our final reply was a scale of charges we would be claiming as costs ! (cheeky but fed up of them harrasing an 18 year old when he hasnt done anything wrong !)

    I am more than happy to go to court with my son as a witness to state on oath it was 'sent' as per statute So we are going to do the not guilty thing and I am thinking to tick the box requiring their witness to attend (the person completing the form) .... any thoughts on this, I have heard of them phoning you to ask why you want them to come and wont just accept there statment being read
    You can have the magistrates court where the hearing will take place issue a Witness Summons, ordering a DVLA muppet to appear before the court. They don't like it because the statements are pre-formatted and, basically, pro-forma documents and they would have to truthfully answer all questions put to them by the defence and the court.

    In my experience, a witness who is reluctant to give evidence in court has a lot of questions to answer and it does bring into question the reliability of their testimony.

    If DVLA ring up asking why you want their witness to attend the hearing, just tell them that you are prepared to ask the magistrates to issue a Witness Summons.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

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