Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[mark1911]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, Does VT apply to a "Finance Lease" that is covered by the CCA 1974?
Thanks

Mark

[Wombats]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Are you talking about PCP?

[Wombats]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi all,

Am after some advice if possible. We're looking at VT'ing an agreement and would like some advice on excess mileage in particular!

In August 2012 we started a HP agreement for a new Renault Twingo direct from RCI Finance. Our monthly payments are £205 and the agreement was for 4 years. Unfortunately the car is no longer suitable for my working life (I now have to do around 500 business miles a month). The original agreement had a mileage limit of 6000 miles per year, the cars mileage currently stands at 22,350 so approximately 10,500 over the allowance. They indicate a charge of 6p per mile which would equate to £621.

The total amount outstanding on the agreement is £8,082.46 and the 50% figure is £6,545.55 which equals a deficit of £1,536.91. The car is worth £4,200 at trade in and £5,350 private sale (maximum). You can see the issue I have!

We have the cash to pay off the deficit so this isn't really a problem, but I don't particularly want to be hit with the £621 mileage charge on top of this if I can help it. I'm assuming that as the mileage is within reasonable parameters (11,175 per year) this may be arguable?

Thanks in advance.

Tom

Yes, my understanding is that as long as you have paid (or are going to pay) the 50% figure, then the legislation of the CCA overrides the contractual clauses re excess mileage. I have little doubt they will argue differently, but I believe you can walk away without paying one penny more as per the Act, assuming reasonable condition. Make sure you sign nothing unless you are totally happy with it, and get photos of the vehicle inside and out with a copy of that days newspaper in the photo to prove the date. Take particular close ups of any damage which may be mentioned as a small stone chip can become a brand new bonnet.

[mark1911]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Are you talking about PCP?

no its not PCP. although I have no idea about the differences between the types of lease. but its called a "Finance Lease" its for a van, 3 months payment as a deposit and 60 rentals for initial period and a secondary period after that if I want to keep it. but im half way through and want to change but the van is worth less the than settlement figure. do this help?

thanks

Mark

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If there is an option to buy on completion of the hire period contained within the contract then it is a conditional sale or HP agreement, and the VT provisions will apply, if there isn't it would be a hire agreement ad they don't.

[mark1911]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If there is an option to buy on completion of the hire period contained within the contract then it is a conditional sale or HP agreement, and the VT provisions will apply, if there isn't it would be a hire agreement ad they don't.

just reading the contract and it has no option to buy. it also says hire agreement regulated by the CCA 1974

[Wombats]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

With no option to buy, you would not be able to VT the vehicle. If, for some reason, you are no longer able to afford the payments, then approach the hire company and tell them. They may be able to find an alternative solution.

[mark1911]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

With no option to buy, you would not be able to VT the vehicle. If, for some reason, you are no longer able to afford the payments, then approach the hire company and tell them. They may be able to find an alternative solution.

Ok thanks guys

Mark

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hire agreements are still regulated it is just that the protections availability for HP or conditional sale do not apply

[nobodysdriving]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I wanted to thank everyone for this thread!

I am terminating my 'just add fuel' agreement with Peugeot.

I paid under 50% so I had to pay them a 'settlement figure' which I have last week.

then they told me RMS would arrange pick up of the car (which is only 19 months old with 5500 miles!), when I called them today they said they pick up monday to friday 9 to 5, I work during those hours so 'got upset' and told them 'surely I can just take it to my Peugeot dealer? I happen to live next door to them!'

they said I could drop it off at dealer so long that I gave them a 'named contact'.

I walked off to dealer, spoke to the sales manager who agreed to receive car and give his name, we called RMS and gave him his name.

Now on monday I have to take the car to dealer as RMS is collecting it from them on wednesday....I told the sales manager I will want to take photos of the car to certify it's 'condition' , he said he would do this anyway.

I have now 'drafted' a document which will me 'my report' on the condition of the car.

I have based my document on the terms and conditions set out in the contract by Peugeot where they specify what is 'normal wear and tear' down to the tiniest details...for each paragraph I have put down the statements NO (as in no damage found) and YES give details.

I will ask the sales guy to circle no or yes as applicable and get him to write down details if a yes is circled. We both will have to sign each page which has the car reg number on it and date.

I will then give him a copy of this document, I will also be happy to sign his report/document and ask for a copy.

Not sure what else to do to 'protect' myself

there are things in the T&Cs that I don't know how the guy can possibly check on 'the spot' like if the brake pads need replacing? or if the discs are scratched!

I am SO dreading this

[Wombats]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It sounds like you've got it pretty much covered. When you take the photos, make sure you have a copy of that day's newspaper in them as well to prove the date. The condition report is usually the single biggest issue with VT's with one party wanting as much money as possible and the other wanting to give none. If you're asked to sign one, sign like a police statement immediately after the itemised 'issues' if there are any, as well as on the dotted line. This just ensures they can't add anything later.

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I wanted to thank everyone for this thread!

I am terminating my 'just add fuel' agreement with Peugeot.

I paid under 50% so I had to pay them a 'settlement figure' which I have last week.

then they told me RMS would arrange pick up of the car (which is only 19 months old with 5500 miles!), when I called them today they said they pick up monday to friday 9 to 5, I work during those hours so 'got upset' and told them 'surely I can just take it to my Peugeot dealer? I happen to live next door to them!'

they said I could drop it off at dealer so long that I gave them a 'named contact'.

I walked off to dealer, spoke to the sales manager who agreed to receive car and give his name, we called RMS and gave him his name.

Now on monday I have to take the car to dealer as RMS is collecting it from them on wednesday....I told the sales manager I will want to take photos of the car to certify it's 'condition' , he said he would do this anyway.

I have now 'drafted' a document which will me 'my report' on the condition of the car.

I have based my document on the terms and conditions set out in the contract by Peugeot where they specify what is 'normal wear and tear' down to the tiniest details...for each paragraph I have put down the statements NO (as in no damage found) and YES give details.

I will ask the sales guy to circle no or yes as applicable and get him to write down details if a yes is circled. We both will have to sign each page which has the car reg number on it and date.

I will then give him a copy of this document, I will also be happy to sign his report/document and ask for a copy.

Not sure what else to do to 'protect' myself

there are things in the T&Cs that I don't know how the guy can possibly check on 'the spot' like if the brake pads need replacing? or if the discs are scratched!

I am SO dreading this

Just to echo Wombats advice

I know it can be intimidating, and they do not make it easy. What you have to remember is that you hold all the cards, whatever they may tell you , you do not have to do anything other than drop the car off, if they become too obnoxious just put the keys on the counter and walk away, take a goodbye picture of the car on your way out if you like with your phone but it is not really needed.

All that is required of you is what is in the legislation it doesn't matter what is in there paperwork, when you fill in their forms you are doing them a favor remember that, although they will undoubtedly tell you otherwise, once the car has gone back they will undoubtedly send you a bill,. I have done 5 of these personalty and involved in countless others and this is the case without exception, many will just pay, this is why they send them, of the ones that dispute them i would say 90% have them dropped or drastically reduced.

So keep you head up like i said they are doing you no favors you are simply exercising your rights. let us know how you get on.

[simon.treacher]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Again!


Received further correspondence 1 month after the below e-mail. Sorry if this is all a bit long but advice appreciated.


My Reply:


RMS


Thank-you for the electronic documents, however I already have paper copies of those you have sent. As discussed on the 27th August 2014 –I clearly stated during our telephone conversation that I dispute the charges and report from G3/RMS Receivables.


Attached is a copy of the inspection report at the time of collection and the only noted damage to the vehicle was some light scratches (LS) and x2 chips (C). One to rear bumper and one to the car bonnet. The car bonnet chip did not progress to the under-layer and was superficial. The inspector at the time has also noted x3 ‘S’ on the report – as there is no actual ‘S’ on your DAMAGE ABBREVIATIONS one can only assume he meant light scratch (LS) as the vehicle had no severe scratches (SS) at the time of collection. I’m sure your inspector would have noted such as he appeared very diligent and thorough during the inspection.


It is however with great concern that I note his report in no way reflects the damage your Damage Value report suggests; and I can again only assume that further damage has taken place once the vehicle left my possession. As such I refute the majority of the charges you are suggesting I have incurred.


Whilst the vehicle was 8 and ½ years old it was, and I’m sure still is, perfectly road worthy as you yourself said the vehicle has already been sold – without any of the work you stated being completed. However I am prepared to accept that the chip/scuff to the bumper was possibly excessive in relation to the age of the car and fair wear and tear for one that had done approximately 100,000 miles. I would be prepared to meet the cost of £45 that you have quoted for the bumper repair.


Should you wish to discuss this matter further I would appreciate all future correspondence to be in writing, via post, and I am quite prepared to issue a Cheque for the £45 when you confirm this is acceptable in writing.


I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.


Followed by reply received today:


Simon,


We write with reference to your e-mail dated 2nd September 2014. The contents of which have been noted.


You were notified on your voluntary termination response/quotation form that there would be a cursory inspection upon collection and then there would be a second inspection carried out as well. This is also stated in the disclaimer on the inspection report you attached to your e-mail.


On your attached inspection report it states the vehicle was wet and a full inspection was unable to be carried out. This is why there is a second, more in-depth inspection completed on site.


Our client Peugeot Financial Services has no legal obligation to carry out any out repairs to the vehicle and as such hold the right to sell the vehicle sold as seen. The charges in relation to this claim are pursuant to contract and shows the estimate of repair, which is derived by obtaining a national average of repair charges from a database of approved repairers.


The car drove a total of 73 miles to site once it left your possession. The probability of all the ‘extra damage’ occurring in the 73 miles is extremely unlikely in comparison to the amount of time and miles covered by yourself.


Just because a vehicle is 8 and ½ years old does not mean the vehicle will have many scratches/dents etc. Also just because a vehicle is roadworthy does not take away the fact that you are obliged to honour your contractual agreement with our client.


We will not be accepting your offer of £45.00.


We are however willing to close this matter. Peugeot Financial Services agreed to accept the sum of £625.00, in Full and Final settlement of this Claim for damages. This will need to be paid in full on or by 10/10/2014


Failure to comply with this request will result in our client immediately demanding the payment of the original amount and reserve the right to issue legal proceedings against you for that amount should payment not be forthcoming.


We therefore politely request that you call our office on 0113 2014440 to make payment to the total sum of £625.00 by debit or credit card. Alternatively please pay into the following bank account on or before the date specified above.


RMS Receivables:
Sort Code: 20-11-81
Account Number: 13500314
(Our reference must be quoted with all payments


Regards,


RMS




So that's where I stand at present, thoughts anyone?
Simon

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just a threatogram, I would either ignore it or send back a response repeating your earlier letter. Very unlikely a court would enforce such a demand, and even more unlikely they would take it that far, they are just hoping you cave in.

No idea why they should think they have any right to re sell the car in the same condition you returned it in, there is no legal reason why they should, the car only has to be in reasonable condition for its age, I would have thought they would have wanted it to be in exceptional condition before they sold it. In any case it is not your problem what they do with it once it has gone back, you have no "contractual responsibility" the contract with you is terminated in any case.

[nobodysdriving]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just to echo Wombats advice

I know it can be intimidating, and they do not make it easy. What you have to remember is that you hold all the cards, whatever they may tell you , you do not have to do anything other than drop the car off, if they become too obnoxious just put the keys on the counter and walk away, take a goodbye picture of the car on your way out if you like with your phone but it is not really needed.

All that is required of you is what is in the legislation it doesn't matter what is in there paperwork, when you fill in their forms you are doing them a favor remember that, although they will undoubtedly tell you otherwise, once the car has gone back they will undoubtedly send you a bill,. I have done 5 of these personalty and involved in countless others and this is the case without exception, many will just pay, this is why they send them, of the ones that dispute them i would say 90% have them dropped or drastically reduced.

So keep you head up like i said they are doing you no favors you are simply exercising your rights. let us know how you get on.

thank you Andy58

I am 'dreading this'

I will have to read the whole thread from the beginning as I can't remember the 'legislation' bits (you say 'all that is required of you is what is in the legislation', so not sure, I have read the contract issued by Peugeot....)

As far as I know there is some light scratches to wheel cover on one wheel (done by curb), these are only plastic covers not alloy so cheap one to replace. and that is it! The brake pads may need replacing I don't know, it's done 5500 miles from new and had a service last year in december (I got it january 2013).

Guess I'll be back on here in 2 to 3 weeks telling you all of the money they are demanding of me