Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

What documents do they need? they may be referring to the V5C and service book etc. but if you have terminated the agreement yourself you should write to them and point that out. Thefore those default letters they have sent to you were not applicable and the next steps are for them to come and collect the vehicle.

[Sylwia]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thay know that the car and the car documents like V5C are in the auction house. That lady she said that thay need permision for seling this car in auction.Im not sure exacly what that but i should find out on Tue. whan I will get them but before we will sign them i will ask you if that alright with you.
and thank you for help and sorry for my english but I hope You can understend what I write😊

[BelgianBun]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi,
Need some advice to a couple of queries associated with VT.
1. I'm a guarantor on my wife's PCP which we're intending to VT. No payments ever missed, hence I'm assuming that my liability as a guarantor will cease also when the VT is activated, right?
2. Having performed a calculation as to when 50% of the total payable amount will be repaid, I've come to the conclusion that on the month prior to hitting this point I'm only £100 under. Could I make an overpayment during the period prior to hitting th 50% point so that I can actually trigger the VT a month earlier?
Thanks,
Steven.

[jaw1985]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Rob, Everyone.

I issued the letter on Post ( Again thanks a million ) - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...302#post668302

in relation to the outstanding Issue I have with Moneyway. After issuing the letter Several times, both standard and recorded delivery I received a letter of acknowledgement from Secure trust bank on the 6th of January and informed that they would be investigating my Complaint.

As I've said I've personally no issue paying the amount owed. My Issue is with the fact they have just added the amount onto my finance agreement and are threatening to Default me.

So........

I've received my Complaint investigation letter and low and behold they aren't doing anything. Unsurprising really. A statement in the letter really did surprise me and it relates to the estimated costs of repair to the vehicle.

"We may decide not to complete the repairs nevertheless; the Estimated costs are still required to be paid by you..."
Surely this is not legal? - If I ask a builder to come and repair my house and they say it will cost x.................... I sell my house that builder isn't going to turn up and say excuse me i said it would take x amount to repair your house.... where's my cash?

They have stated that this will be the final correspondence issued by them and if i have an issue I should contact the financial ombudsman should I not be satisfied.

So my question now is what do I do? How do i tackle this?

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If there are any repairs or maintenance require you are responsible for the cost of these.

Unfortunately the above is incorrect. The law says that where the goods are returned and are not in a reasonable condition, then the finance company can receive compensation. However, I would argue that the finance company is not the judge of what is owed and what is not owed because their right to receive compensation is set out in statute law and therefore it is the Court's duty to determine whether it has been returned in a reasonable condition.

Equally, what if the car is not new and is 5/6 years old with damage already sustained due to previous owners? Why should a borrower pay for someone else's damage? In that case, it would be up to the finance company to prove the damage occurred whilst in the possession of the borrower, you cannot simply assume that it was caused by you.

How can they prove it? By carrying out an inspection prior to you taking possession of the car and then comparing the two inspections to see what and if any damage beyond reasonable wear and tear has occurred. Sadly, finance companies never carry out an inspection prior to handover so they just cannot prove that the damage was caused by you.

Manheim carry out an inspection according to BVRLA guidelines, yet those guidelines are generally used for leased cars and the vehicle rental industry. The guidelines have a set criteria as to what may be considered reasonable wear and tear regardless of what age the vehicle is. So the same standards will be applied to an almost-new vehicle as well as a vehicle that is 10 years old.

Have you checked to see if they have applied a default on your credit file?

You can submit a complaint to the Ombudsman but they do at the moment seem to be inconsistent. However, the key point to note is that they must prove the damage beyond wear and tear happened on your watch and I am not sure how they can do that.

[jaw1985]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Rob,

Yeah, I am responsible and I'm happy to pay the repair bill IF the repairs took place.
In the letter they have stated that regardless if the repairs took place or not I am liable for the estimation cost? surely this is not legal?

So far they have not applied any defaults to my Credit file, isn't stopping them trying to though.

I'll refer my complain to the Financial Ombudsman and see if they can assist me with my complaint.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Generally, there is a rule of the finance company to mitigate their loss. Although not a legal duty, the Courts would expect them to take reasonable steps to minimise their losses and not to take unreasonable steps which may further increase their loss. Whether or not they are entitled to the alleged compensation for damage without carrying out the repairs is an arguable point. Though I would expect them to provide evidence of the car's valuation in its present condition and what the car may be worth if the repairs (only the ones beyond wear and tear) were carried out. They can only be compensated for damage beyond wear and tear so if they had chosen to carry out repairs which were not deemed beyond wear and tear, they couldn't recover those monies.

Again, whether the finance company ought to be entitled to the compensation is a matter of fact taking into account all of the circumstances and evidence. I find it difficult that someone which is provided for under statute, is to be determined at the sole discretion of the finance company. The relevant section says that half the total amount payable may be increased to compensate for failing to take reasonable care of the goods but it does not stipulate who makes that decision. As the provision is made out under statute law, that decision would therefore be determined by the court.

Applying a default to someone's credit file is like a backdoor to possibly coercing or putting undue pressure on a person to pay something that the finance company may not be entitled to.

If you are complaining to the Ombudsman, you should set it out clearly and make sure to mention that all they have done is given you a breakdown of the damage to the car and have no further evidence that shows you were the sole cause of it.

[Sylwia]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Rob
I got the documents finally come today. Before i sign them i would get advice from You
https://postimg.org/image/yvhoh4oj1/
https://postimg.org/image/63h3p7dwz/
https://postimg.org/image/h61rgok9b/

[kclkdxxx]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi malnik, I just wondered if after this post you had any further contact with the finance company, and if you were charged for excess miles or damage? I will be VTing my Fiat within the next few days!

[Sharpe]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi everyone.

Lots of good info round here. Thanks to everyone for taking time to write in.

I've got a HP agreement with MotoNovo and already paid just over the 50%mark. I tried to change my car, went to same dealer where i took this car from, and I've been asked for an extra £2000 to setle my agreement. I decided that i will be better off to just voluntary terminate and hand the car back. (They did not helped me with this info, in fact my visit has finished when i mentioned about VT conditions).
So i Googled for a few days an downloaded a template from citizen advice website. The letter stated that i want to exercise my right to cancel under s99 CCA with "imediate effect". I called the MotoNovo on 18th, the lady over the phone was nice and explained me some things and i been invited to write them a letter by my hand and post it to them or email it. So i just copied my template by hand made a picture of it and emailed it. After that i thought it would be better if would use a recorded delivery service, so i dropped the printed letter in post "signed for" very same day.

Now my question is whether is my agreement terminated or not yet. Ive been reading on previous posts about a 14 days notice. Also a new payment is due for 25th, and i wouldn't feel like make another payment for this car. Should i cancel my DD? I phoned them today and questioned them about my agreement, they confirmed that they received my letter on 20th and they told me because my letter turned in so soon is more likely to have to pay the next installment. I mentioned that i should not pay as is their now not mine and i would be happy to assist in handing the car over asap before 26th. Also ive been told that the following instalment will be used for eventually payments which may occur.
To be honest I do not trust them i do not feel like paying anything in advance...

What should I do?...
Its a 11 plate, 95k miles today (bought with 34k 2.6 years ago)

Thanks in advance!

[Trouserkoff]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, I'm a new poster so go easy.
ive recently VTd my car with a reasonably hefty excess mileage and have taken much of ROB's advice on how to go about this.
when being issued with the invoics I used the template letter posted earlier in the thread, Mercedes then raised a 'complaint and I received this response:


Thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns with our De-Fleet department following the return of your vehicle.

I was disappointed to read you have been left feeling aggrieved by the end of contract charges raised. It is never our intention to cause any distress to our customers at any stage of their journey with us.

Whilst I appreciate your concerns; whether you are returning your car at the end of your agreement or upon use of the Voluntary Termination (VT) clause, as you have not exercised your right to purchase the car, an excess mileage charge will be raised should your return mileage exceed your total mileage allowance. This obligation is set out within the first page of your agreement, under key information. The provisions of the Consumer Credit Act that cover a customer’s right to VT their agreement do permit us to include any over mileage when determining what is 'not reasonable' upon the cars return. It is stated in your agreement under ‘Excess Distance’; ‘If the vehicle is returned to us (whether at the end of the period hire or an earlier termination), we will calculate the total distance travelled by the vehicle whilst in your possession (the “Total Distance”)’.

Your mileage allowance has therefore been re-calculated on a pro-rata basis in line with the length of time you have had the vehicle in your possession and I have attached a copy of the Voluntary Termination acceptance form signed by you confirming your agreement to be held liable for any damages or excess mileage following an inspection of your vehicle.

Please find below a breakdown of your excess mileage calculation for your reference:

Original Allowance: 40,000 miles
Original Miles: 37,000 miles
Total allowance: 77,000 miles (40,000 + 37,000)
Term of agreement: 48 months
Terminated early by: 15 months
Revised allowance: 64,521 miles (27,521 + 37,000)
Collection miles: 111,730 miles
Exceeded by: 47,209 miles
Pence per mile: 9 pence, plus VAT
Total: £5,098.57

I would also like to kindly refer you to S99 (2) Consumer Credit Act 1974 where it states:

‘Termination of an agreement under S (1) does not affect any liability under the agreement which has accrued before the termination.’

As your agreement was subject to a mileage allowance prior to termination and you have exceeded the allowance of 64,521 miles, the charge has been raised correctly and remains payable.

I understand this is an unexpected invoice and I am happy to assist you with clearing the outstanding balance by agreeing to an appropriate payment arrangement with you. I kindly ask you contact one of our advisors on 0370 240 1110 who would be happy to assist you with this.

Whilst this may not be the response you had hoped for, I trust the above has provided you with the reassurance that I have fully investigated your concerns. Please also be assured that your complaint has been investigated in line with our obligation to treat our customers fairly.

May I kindly ask you accept this as our final response, however, should you be at all unhappy with our handling of your complaint you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge – but you must do so within six months of the date of this response. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.


The form that I supposedly signed was altered by me and where it originally read:
'i be liable for any excess mileage'

i had scrubbed it out and wrote in:
'Anything not considered fair wear and tear'

BEAR WITH ME

I responded with this:

Hannah,


I would like to point out that at point of sale I was told that including a mileage of 10,000 was the only way to fit the vehicle into my budget and that the mileage is not really important however because I may terminate early due to my work situation. On close reading of the CCA it seems unlikely that your claim against me would be successful.


My reasoning is as follows:
Section 100 of the CCA says that my contractural liability is restricted to 50% of the total amount payable and so you would find it difficult enforce excess mileage charges under the contractual term. The relevant reasons are set out in section 173 CCA. The term in the agreement is conflicted with my limited liability and so the CCA prevails over the contractual term.
You said in your email:-

'I have attached a copy of the Voluntary Termination acceptance form signed by you confirming your agreement to be held liable for any damages or excess mileage following an inspection of your vehicle.'

And use this as evidence that I had accepted liability for excess mileage PRIOR to termination whereas if you actually look at the form you will see that I accepted no such liability. In fact it could be argued that this form should have made you aware that I was not accepting liability for the excess mileage.
Therefore where you said:-

‘Termination of an agreement under S (1) does not affect any liability under the agreement which has accrued before the termination.’

This clause would not extend to excess mileage because I was not invoiced PRIOR to termination of the agreement and in deed was only made aware of the invoice after it was terminated. This supposed liability does not form part of the monthly instalments and so for you to be entitled to recover this, you should only be entitled to do so if I were asked to pay for it BEFORE I terminated the agreement. Otherwise I may have chosen not to terminate.
There is no quid pro quo here and had I been under the mileage allowance I would not have been entitled to claim liabilities from you.


The CCA is quite clear in stating that ,subject to fair wear and tear, I may hand the car back with 'nothing more to pay' on the assumption that the car is kept in a reasonable condition and is kept in good repair.
The car has been regularly serviced by Mercedes and allowing for the odd small dent which is normal for a car of that age /mileage, it is in a good condition.


I look forward to you confirming closure on the matter.

i have since had no response since last Thursday (5 days ago)
ive had no acknowledgement of my email
i since sent again and asked for acknowledgement and didn't receive any
just now I sent an email asking for a signed copy of my agreement

anyone got any useful advice as to how I ought to proceed as it seems to me from what I've read on here that the ombudsman usually is little help!

thanks for being patient with me

[MsMK]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi,

I phoned Northridge on Friday 3 Feb to initiate VT (which I have never done before). They went through a checklist on phone (asking if car was MOTd, had spare key etc) and said I had to take car to Auction place in Shotts (about 40 miles away) and they would confirm in writing. I've now had letter through and have dropped the car off today at Manheim. Because it's Northridge I didn't need an appointment and they wouldn't let me stay for the inspection. They said Northridge are one of the better companies and more flexible so you don't need appointment etc. However, that concerned me as I don't know what they will put on their report. I did take lots of pics on site before I left of the car

The service history of the car is up to date (just serviced in December) and the MOT not due until March. Bodywork wise there's a couple of minor road chips and some alloy wheel scuffs (car is 5 years old and I didn't buy it from new). Otherwise it's been well looked after.

There is a checklist that I have to return to Northridge after I return the vehicle asking for

• mileage,
• have I provided evidence of service history,
• Does vehicle have any mechanical faults
• Have I included V5 document
• Have I included 2 sets of keys
• Does it have a roadworthy spare wheel and tool kit

However, there is then a paragraph which says 'I confirm that I wish to exercise my rights under the above hire-purchase agreement and acknowledge that per the conditions that my liabilities under the aforementioned agreement will cease provided I have taken 'reasonable care of the goods'. If it later transpires that any of the above checklist items has been incorrectly advised, I will remain liable for the cost incurred by the finance company in remedying'. Do I have to sign this? There are no 'mechanical faults' that I know of but I am concerned in signing this they may find or invent some that I then have to cover. Just want to know what legal obligations are so that I don't have to do anything over and above that?

Also, can I now cancel direct debit since I gave them notice over 2 weeks ago?

Thanks

[Vic84]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I'm In this same position with money barn I have paid 6k of a 16k agreement does this mean under VT I will have to pay £2k? I need to get shut of the car asap what's the best way, also I'm reading posts about mileage and I wasn't aware of this?

[SecretBob]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

First time poster, great site with alot of useful info. My PCP is 3 months away from ending,and have been looking at changing the car. the original supplier (Nissan) has struggled to come up with a good replacement deal, and have been usurped by a much better deal from Mercedes. in order to get the deal through, it was suggested that I VT. Never done this before, but got the following from Nissan for me to sign and return:

I am exercising my right to voluntary terminate the above Agreement. I understand how any liability amount will becalculated and the process for returning the car has been fully explained to me. I agree that I will settle any charges forcollection of the vehicle (where this option has been ticked below), damage, missing items and/or excess mileage chargesas invoiced by you.The current mileage on the vehicle is –(please complete this field – failure to complete this may result in the VT process being delayed)Signature DateMr SecretBOB –This must be signed by our customerDay time telephone numberAlternative telephone number

They have already told me that I am liable for excess mileage prorata - agreement was for 45000, currently at 42060 giving an excess charge circa £165. The car is 3 years old and has scuff marks on 3 of the alloy wheels.

Reading the info on the linked page, it seems I shouldn't be liable for the excess mileage under the credit agreement, not too sure on the liability for the scuff marks, it's £210 for 3 alloy repairs but I would argue these are wear and tear? The VT is mainly a means to get the replacement car in before the end of March and the car tax changes, I've already put a deposit on the new one but am having second thoughts on the VT. Currently adapting your draft letter for VT to include the part about denying excess mileage to send in place of their slip. Grateful for any thoughts or advice.

[SecretBob]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

First time poster, great site with alot of useful info. My PCP is 3 months away from ending,and have been looking at changing the car. the original supplier (Nissan) has struggled to come up with a good replacement deal, and have been usurped by a much better deal from Mercedes. in order to get the deal through, it was suggested that I VT. Never done this before, but got the following from Nissan for me to sign and return:

I am exercising my right to voluntary terminate the above Agreement. I understand how any liability amount will becalculated and the process for returning the car has been fully explained to me. I agree that I will settle any charges forcollection of the vehicle (where this option has been ticked below), damage, missing items and/or excess mileage chargesas invoiced by you.The current mileage on the vehicle is –(please complete this field – failure to complete this may result in the VT process being delayed)Signature DateMr SecretBOB –This must be signed by our customerDay time telephone numberAlternative telephone number

They have already told me that I am liable for excess mileage prorata - agreement was for 45000, currently at 42060 giving an excess charge circa £165. The car is 3 years old and has scuff marks on 3 of the alloy wheels.

Reading the info on the linked page, it seems I shouldn't be liable for the excess mileage under the credit agreement, not too sure on the liability for the scuff marks, it's £210 for 3 alloy repairs but I would argue these are wear and tear? The VT is mainly a means to get the replacement car in before the end of March and the car tax changes, I've already put a deposit on the new one but am having second thoughts on the VT. Currently adapting your draft letter for VT to include the part about denying excess mileage to send in place of their slip. Grateful for any thoughts or advice.

Decided not to go with the VT option,