car sold while still on finance with out consent

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

I informed the police what my son had with the log book and they also told me to get intouch with dvla but I have been unable to get log book back in my name ,and yes sapphire you are right he dosn`t deserve me as it is not the only thing he`s done, he has also had visa card loan of me which I am left paying also furniture on finance he needed that I am also paying .
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The ironical thing about all this is that my son works on the police data base as he is a computer i.t consultant and earns a £1000 a week wage but can`t pay his debts .

[labman]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Whatever the statements about the rights and wrongs of the CCA, with which I am quite familiar, I still stand by what I said all the way back in post 6.

I think we all seem agreed that the OP should report her son to the police again for at least the theft of the vehicle, and possibly further crimes.

As regards the visa loan, was this voluntary or did he do it fraudulently?

I would imagine that even working in a civil role, if found guilty of fraud he could well end up losing his job.

[Sapphire]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Sorry fairy dust I know you must feel awful about this but you must report your son as soon as possible, he's taking the 'p' out of you big time and you need to stop it now.
Right small question these other debts are they in his or your name? If they are in his start separate threads and we can address them also. This boy needs to face his responsibilities.

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Whatever the statements about the rights and wrongs of the CCA, with which I am quite familiar, I still stand by what I said all the way back in post 6.

I think we all seem agreed that the OP should report her son to the police again for at least the theft of the vehicle, and possibly further crimes.

As regards the visa loan, was this voluntary or did he do it fraudulently?

I would imagine that even working in a civil role, if found guilty of fraud he could well end up losing his job.

I think we should have a look at the agreement first of course just my opinion.

But i think it may be as well to find out if the car actually belonged to him before he reports it stolen.

Yes i know his son has commited an offence, no one is disputing that, it is the effect of the action of officially reporting it on the OP that is important.

LL

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Thinking about this , there is another course of action, he could consider,( not recommending it just throwing it in the pot).
How about finding out who bought the vehicle and dropping them a line.
They are probably unaware that they have purchased stolen goods.
Send a copy of the HP agreement and mention that he is in the process of reporting the theft to the police.
Would that be to mean.
LL

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Fairy Dust 49, I feel genuinely sorry for you and the situation you find yourself in and what has subsequently transpired. The fact your son is employed in the management of a police database means he is in a position of trust and this makes the matter all the more serious.

What I am about to say is as a retired policeman - You must report everything and I mean everything to the police and let them deal with it. Yes, he will almost certainly lose his job and his liberty. Terrible as this may sound, he has betrayed not only your trust in him, but that of the police force who employ him and the community that police force serves.

[Sapphire]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Not mean at all LL, I'd do far worse to the boy, but in fact at the moment if it is done all that will suffice is to bring worry on some other poor souls shoulders and all they have done is buy a car in good faith, but then again .... common sense tells you if you are buying from a private seller then its best to do an HPI check, so yes, thinking again I say go for it and let the new owner get in on the act and let them prosecute from their end too.

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Police still insist that it is up to finance company and vice versa with finance ,which ever way I turn I don`t seem to be getting very far and as for my son well he just says not his problem as car is in my name may be I should take him to small claims court which is another drastic action ,but I think this is the only way he will learn a lesson not to take me for granted.Thank you all for your advice very much appreciated.

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Either way, the OP owes the finance company the outstanding balance as the loan is in their name and they are, therefore, the lawful debtor.

As to the actions of the son, he has committed Fraud by Misrepresentation in selling it to whoever is the new owner/keeper and that person is a victim as well. He has also committed the same offence, but with different circumstances, in obtaining a V5C in his name from the DVLA. He has committed Theft from the OP, if the loan is a credit agreement, in which case the OP is the lawful owner, or the finance company, if the loan is an HP agreement. In any case, the finance company's advice to the OP to report the car as stolen to the police is correct.

I am not so sure the person who is now the owner/keeper of the car can keep the car. If it is reported to the police as stolen, it will be stopped, seized and impounded until the question of lawful ownership is determined. I am doubtful an insurance company would entertain a claim as they will almost certainly query the OP giving the V5C to their son.

As for the £6,000 the son obtained from the person who is now the owner/keeper of the car, it is quite correct that, under Civil Law, that is conversion. Under Criminal Law, it is known as realisation. However, the son cannot be prosecuted for Handling Stolen Goods as it applies only to those other than the thief, cheat or burglar who stole/defrauded property, etc..

The OP has to make a decision to report the criminal aspects to the police. As for the financial aspects, the OFT would probably be in a better position to advise on that.

I think it may be a good idia for the OP to consider the financial aspects before they do anything.

It is true the son cannot be liable for handling stollen goods , but the buyer can , cant they?

The problem as i see it is going to be proving that the son sold the car without the consent of the father, if it was with consent then it is a civil breach only(the sale i mean) if it was not, then it is selling stollen goods.

In the first case the Creditor will not be able to reclaim the goods but will most certainly want to reclaim the money from the OP, possibly immediately. In the second case the creditor wil have claim to the car (if recovered)which may or may not settle the debt.

LL

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

The visa card loan, he did ask me on the promise that he would pay it back to which he hasn`t also fraud was mentioned in conversation well you never would have thought but he has done that to me also by getting mobile phones in my name with out my permision,but I have got fraud teams working on that with orange and t-mobile and hopefully they will re-inberse the payments I have had to pay so fingers crossed there.

[fairy dust 49]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

I have just looked at the car finance and it is hp finance and not personal loan finance..

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Hello

Was the car insured when you loaned it to your son?

LL

[bluebottle]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

The OP has no choice but to let the police deal with this, especially in view of the fact the son is in a position of trust and has now committed further fraud involving a VISA card.

The finance company clearly has an interest in the car and is the lawful owner until the final payment is made. Whether an insurer would entertain a claim in the circumstances is another matter.

As for the new owner/keeper, I am afraid that, once the car is reported stolen, it will be stopped, seized and impounded by the police until lawful ownership is established. There is nothing he/she can do about it. If the finance company wish to relinquish their right and title in the vehicle to the new owner/keeper, it has to be agreed to by the insurer as they, too, have an interest in the vehicle through the motor insurance, provided, that is, they haven't invalidated it.

If the new owner/keeper has to forfeit the vehicle, which may happen, he/she can do little about it, other than report the OP's son for Fraud by False Misrepresentation and Possession of An Article for Use in Fraud (the V5C).

[Sapphire]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

Faiiry dust are you seriously saying that you have reported this matter in full to the police and they are saying its not their problem ?
Have you told them everything and that he has sold something that does not belong to him and in fact must have forged your signature to do so, also that he has got finances in your name without your permission and he's saying to you tough, take me to court.
I really do think that you must, must call your local station and insist that they come and visit you in your home, then you can give them photocopies of all and every bit of paperwork you have, DO NOT give them the originals under any circumstances, photo copies only, then let them deal with the coppers in Scotland, and make sure the coppers at your house see your circumstances and see how this is affecting you.

[lindalou]

Re: car sold while still on finance with out consent

The OP has no choice but to let the police deal with this, especially in view of the fact the son is in a position of trust and has now committed further fraud involving a VISA card.

In my experience, a finance company can only take back goods towards the end of an HP agreement by way of court order or the debtor surrenders the goods and pays off all outstanding sums due. Very few cars these days are sold on HP as a lot of insurers will not insure them. Most cars, these days, are sold on credit agreements, which means the debtor is the owner per se from the outset. In the circumstances of this case, I doubt very much an insurer would entertain paying out a claim.

As for the new owner/keeper, I am afraid that, once the car is reported stolen, it will be stopped, seized and impounded by the police until lawful ownership is established. There is nothing he/she can do about it, other than report the OP's son for Fraud by False Misrepresentation and Possession of An Article for Use in Fraud (the V5C).

Sorry but the OP always has a choice

LL
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Faiiry dust are you seriously saying that you have reported this matter in full to the police and they are saying its not their problem ?
Have you told them everything and that he has sold something that does not belong to him and in fact must have forged your signature to do so, also that he has got finances in your name without your permission and he's saying to you tough, take me to court.
I really do think that you must, must call your local station and insist that they come and visit you in your home, then you can give them photocopies of all and every bit of paperwork you have, DO NOT give them the originals under any circumstances, photo copies only, then let them deal with the coppers in Scotland, and make sure the coppers at your house see your circumstances and see how this is affecting you.

Hello

As far as selling the car is concerned they are probably right , if they believe that the son sold it on his behalf, which they probably would.

As i said it would be a civil matter

LL
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IF the car was insured you may have a ficility for free legal help on your insuance, it would be as well to have a look.

LL