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council tax and council recovery charges

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  • #31
    Re: council tax and council recovery charges

    Excellent - I bet they love you!

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: council tax and council recovery charges

      WELL THEN , MY LATEST REPLY TO A FOI ACT REQUEST FROM THE COUNCIL

      Dear Sir/Madam
      Please supply details under the aforementioned Act andwithin the time constraints permitted in relation to the following:

      1) Was there a charge made by XXXXX Magistrates Court to XXXXX XXXCouncil respective of the room hire forthe hearing and issuing of council tax liability orders for the period1/04/2011 to 1/04/2012?

      No charge forroom hire made to XX XXX COUNCIL

      2) If yes,what was the charge made by xxxx Magistrates Court for the TOTAL TIME usedby xxxxxxx Council for thehearing & issuing of Council Tax Liability Orders for the period 1/04/2011to 1/04 2012?

      COUNCIL NEGLECTED TO REPLY TO THE ABOVE QUESTION

      3) How muchis charged by XXXX Magistrates Court to XXXXX for the issuing of Council TaxLiability Orders and what was the total cost incurred by XXXX for same duringthe period 1/04/2011 to 1/04/2012?

      Thecourt charge for an application for a liability order (each defendent) is£3.00. The total cost incurred by XXX in court costs for the period 01/04/11-31/03/12 for council tax was £22,482.00



      Last edited by miliitant; 15th May 2012, 12:07:PM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: council tax and council recovery charges

        so they neglected to answer question 2

        in post 28 FOI, i asked how many liability orders were granted for the period 1/04/2011 to 1/04/2012,
        THEY HAVE CONFIRMED 3,527

        the court has confirmed it charges £3.00 per liability order so 3527 multiply by three gives a total of
        £10581

        now the council has confirmed 4 sittings at £300 a time so thats £1200, so we have now a total court cost of £
        11781

        quote
        The total cost incurred by xxx in court costs for the period01/04/11- 31/03/12 for council tax was £22,482.00

        so we subtract £22,482 with £11781 to give a total court cost of £1071 which has not been accounted for, but it gets better

        if each debtor is being charged £40 court costs which the council state is reasonably incured gives a total for the council of

        3527 liability orders @ £40 a time will be
        £141080 when by the councils own admission the total court costs were £22482

        so the council are making

        £118598 in excess of reasonable costs
        Last edited by miliitant; 15th May 2012, 12:09:PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: council tax and council recovery charges

          Wow! Excellent work Militant. I'm very tempted to do this with my own council.

          What factors now remain to be answered?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: council tax and council recovery charges

            not answering question 2 for a start and it is running along side my other thread about capita/credit agency and passing out personal data

            i am just waiting confirmation that the council receive back handers from these organisations and keep our data past what they were intended for then i will strike

            local media and the audit commission and who knows judicial revew on the behaviour of local authorities kicking a man down when he is at his lowest and profiting by it

            i have nailed them now on both their own recovery costs and court costs and have the evidence to back it up
            the legislation dictates

            COSTS REASONABLY INCURRED

            NOT A MONEY MAKING SCAM

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: council tax and council recovery charges

              All respect to you, Militant. Bloody good detective work, mate.
              Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                NOW TO GO FOR THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN, ANOTHER FOI ACT REQUEST HAS GONE IN LAST NIGHT TO THE COUNCIL


                Dear XXXXXXX Council.

                Thank you for your recent response with regards to my FOI request number XXXXX.

                Further to my research into local Council taxation, It is important for me to obtain accurate financial information from you. With respect, it has been extremely difficult to acquire the most basic financial data and albeit long-winded, it has been necessary to use the Freedom of Information Act.

                Please find herein, a further request under FOI as the information supplied by you respective of FOI XXXXX requires further clarification.

                Request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
                XXX Council
                XXXX
                XXXXX

                APPLICANT: Mr X XXXXXX

                ADDRESS FOR CORRESPONDENCE: XXXXXX

                DESCRIPTION OF INFORMATION REQUESTED

                Dear Sir/Madam

                Please supply details under the aforementioned Act and within the time constraints permitted in relation to the following:

                1) You have previously stated that the cost to XXXXX respective of Court costs for the period 1/4/2011 – 31/3/2012 for Council Tax was £22,482.00. You also state that there is a charge made by the Magistrates Court to XXXXX in the amount of £3.00 per Liability Order application made and 3527 Liabilty Orders were granted for this period. Does XXXX incur a cost for ALL council tax liability order applications submitted to the Magistrates Court whether successful or not? ( quote ‘ 7,510 sent for 5,179 accounts’)

                2) You state that you had six liability hearing dates booked for the period 1/4/2011 – 31/3/2012. Whilst, by your admission that there is no charge made by the Court for the use of its rooms, XXX, presumably will have incurred its own costs for attendance at the booked hearings. What is the total audited cost to CDC for its attendance at court for the same period previously stated?

                3) Do council tax liability hearings take place at the Magistrates court or at the local council offices?

                4) Are council tax summonses presented to a lawful magistrate and adjudged on an individual basis prior to them being stamped by a clerk to the justices?

                5) The council (XXX) on its summons for non payment of council tax charges £40.00 per liability order which is payable by the ‘debtor’ under the heading of ‘court costs’. Whilst the council claims that it incurred its own court costs of £22,482.00 for the period 1/4/2011 – 31/03/2012, it will accrue a revenue of over £140,000 based on 3527 liability orders granted for the period in question. To where and how does this ‘surplus’ money get allocated within XXXX ? As a government body, the council clearly has a responsibility for complete transparency of its finances and I require accurate information from you as to how this surplus is utilised.

                DATE OF THIS REQUEST: 17th DAY OF May 2012

                SIGNED: Mr X XXXXX

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                  OMG!!!! I would love to be a fly on the wall when they receive this. I cannot wait to read their response.



                  In your opinion, (I know what I think), do you think the information gleaned here could be extrapolated across all counties in England and Wales?



                  If, say, I was to want to do the same for my county, is there anything you'd have done differently to save time and costs in obtaining the information?



                  I am exceedingly interested in doing exactly the same for my council as I have proof they are very corrupt over other issues already.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                    the biggest problem i find is that the council are quick enough to use the enforcement legislation against the council tax payer, but when the council payer asks for clarification or explanation the council clamms up. that does not stop baliffs etc. (three wise monkeys)



                    for the common man to get justice you have to use the FOI ACT to force the council to respond. the council then exploit the full 20 WORKING DAYS to reply.

                    my advice would be to follow my requests and let them dig their own grave

                    PATIENCE IS THE GAME IME AFRAID

                    and yes, this will go to the national press once i have all the pieces

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                      Well, as long as you don't mind me using your letters, I'll commit to doing the same here and seeing what response I get.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                        be my guest on this one as i will gladly look into your thread for updates

                        the more we expose the abuse of legislation by local authorities for gain the better in my book

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                          Going off topic a bit, but back in the 90's I was on the Governing Body of a school where the local councillor used to come for 10 minutes so they got their expenses, then make apologies and leave. A genuine use of public funds? An honest councillor? I don't think so. Thing was, however hard we tried, we could not get rid of this person from the governors. Do they stick up for their own? Yes. Is there massive corruption within local government? Yes!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                            you may ask yourself why central goverment is turning a blind eye to this unlawful practice

                            the reason is simple

                            if these unlawful charges result in a surplus of the councils annual accounts each year then central goverment pays less tax payers money into local goverment coffers

                            makes you wonder how far this abuse of legislation goes to save a buck

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                              And that's before you start talking about local government councillors who just tell plain lies about what they have said; or ones who work for other agencies in the voluntary sector which looks good, have a complaint made against them and check the wording of the response to the complaint against them before it is sent out! Wonderful isn't it. Whatever happened to accountability?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: council tax and council recovery charges

                                I might be able to clarify some of the data your council is supplying. I've done a bit of legwork on this and assume your council will be the same as mine and not volunteer any information that might explain things better, i.e. like getting blood out of a stone.

                                Firstly

                                7,510 summonses were sent for 5,179 accounts.

                                What can be misleading in the way these figures are presented is that each adult per household will receive a summons whereas only one charge will be applied per household. So, for the purpose of calculating costs you can ignore the 7,510 figure and use 5,179. This should be the amount that incur the summons penalty.

                                Secondly

                                3,527 liability orders granted.

                                I guess this figure is quite a bit less than those summoned because a significant number of householders would have settled the bill and probably a handful proved that the council had applied for the liability order in error prior to the hearing.

                                However, the £3 per liability order incurred by the council I'm almost certain will be in connection with the number of liability orders applied for, i.e. 5,179 (not 7,510 or 3,527).

                                EDIT:

                                Does the data supplied by your council include NNDR figures? If not its profits could be even more obscene.

                                Comment

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