mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

[mtm103]

Hi all

Hope you can help with this. We sent various letters to mbna saying that as far as we were concerned, they had no enforcable agreement as all they sent was an application form. This was in various letters to them throughout 2011. In October they gave up and sold the debt to Arrow Global/Westcot, who wrote a letter confirming this. We wrote back to Westcot saying we denyed the debt as never sent a valid CCA agreement.

All of a sudden,(today, although letter was dated 3 November), we got a letter from mbna, apologising for not replying to our letter of 31 May (although there were others) and saying:

In your letter you have stated we have provided you with an application form. In common with most lenders the application form and CCA agreement are a combined document. The agreement section contains all the prescribed terms which are presented together as a whole as required by the Acr and related regulations.
The copy of your agreement we have provided contains the prescribed terms and the original terms and conditions on the reverse.
Furthermore, section 59 is not relevant as the agreement presented to you was not as agreement to enter into a future agreement, but was the agreement itself which was executed when signed by both you and mbna.
We are confident we have addressed all the issues raised, and as such, we do not intend to enter into subsequent correspondence with you regarding these issues. Mbna europe bank limited are satisfied that the regulated credit agreement into which we entered with you satisfies all relevant legal and regulatory requirements. As such, there is no need to seek an enforcement order in order to exercise our rights.



What does everyone think? What should be our next tactic? Apart from original Westcot letter, we are still waiting to hear from them.

Many thanks

[mtm103]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

I am sorry, I now need to add something to the above. When I said we got a notice of assignment from arrow global, they said on the letter to write westcot in hull. So we wrote to westcot in hull to say no cca agreement.

Well just opened a letter from westoct (I was a bit hasty with my previous post as not opened all today's mail!) to say

We refer to your recent communication. Unfortunately we are unable to locate an account. All account numbers will be prefixed by either D3 or DM
We have attached your correspondence for your reference and request that this is returned with the correct D3 or DM account number.

The letter from arrow global has a eight digit ref number, but they say to direct all correspondence to westcot..

What are they playing at?

[Angry Cat]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

When did you make the application for credit date/year?

[Gorang]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

The letter from arrow global has a eight digit ref number, but they say to direct all correspondence to westcot..

What are they playing at?

Arrow and westcot will both have their own reference numbers for the same account and they will not recognise each other ref. numbers

when was the last payment made by you on the account

also can you still also answer AC's question of when you opened the account too please

[labman]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

What exactly did you apply for - a credit card, a loan or what?

When did you apply?

Does this look like the form on which you applied?

When you mention the Terms and Conditions, do they come before the signature box or after?

[mtm103]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

Hi all

Apologies for the lack of details. The cc is actually my partner and I am trying to help him. The application goes back to 1994 and over the years, due to his first divorce and loosing his business, it increased to 18k and he could only afford the 500 interest only repayments. There are also other loans and cc but i am trying to help with those.

The actual application form looks fine, but they also send the conditions of use, but they don'tseem to match... The fold of the paper is totally different, and also the ref number is different on both pieces of paper (application form and cknditions of use). They have ignored all our letters until this one of 3 november, which i wrote (apologies, i dont have a scanner, i am on maternity leave). I did do a SAR request and they sent the same thing.

Last payment was in December 2010 as he was paying over 2,000 pounds a month on interest payments alone. Now it has gone to Arrow Global. They gave me the ref number and they said to use that when contacting Westcot.

Finally, he has no assets. What i would like to happen is that eventually we can offer a F and F settlement and i would help with that. I just dont have the money to pay them back in full (he can't)

Many thanks

[CleverClogs]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

All of a sudden,(today, although letter was dated 3 November), we got a letter from mbna, apologising for not replying to our letter of 31 May (although there were others) and saying:

In your letter you have stated we have provided you with an application form. In common with most lenders the application form and CCA agreement are a combined document. The agreement section contains all the prescribed terms which are presented together as a whole as required by the Acr and related regulations.
The copy of your agreement we have provided contains the prescribed terms and the original terms and conditions on the reverse.
Furthermore, section 59 is not relevant as the agreement presented to you was not as agreement to enter into a future agreement, but was the agreement itself which was executed when signed by both you and mbna.
We are confident we have addressed all the issues raised, and as such, we do not intend to enter into subsequent correspondence with you regarding these issues. Mbna europe bank limited are satisfied that the regulated credit agreement into which we entered with you satisfies all relevant legal and regulatory requirements. As such, there is no need to seek an enforcement order in order to exercise our rights.

The Mafia Bank of North America is quite notorious for cocking things up and then relying on bluster to exact payments.

I must say that I am quite mystified why they would allude to section 59 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (link) but one might suspect it was merely irrelevant bluster on their part.

From what you have posted, it does look as if they have not even sent a credible reconstruction of the agreement.

Did they serve a default notice and, if so, when did they deign to do that?

[mtm103]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

Thanks!

I know, I never mentioned section 59 so was a bit clueless as to why add that in! They did send a default notice, let me dig it out. The problem with their letters seems to be that, either our postman hates mbna and won't deliver their letters, or they are always dated a week or more before we actually get them! Bit like the 3 november letter, we got it on 3 december!

[labman]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

A Credit Card Agreement should contain:

Heading -eg- Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Yours and the lenders name and address

The credit limit

Interest Rate

Repayment Arrangements - amount and frequency

Your right to cancel

Signature and Date set out as -eg- This is a Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

Attached or linked (but not in among the text of the above) should be the terms and Conditions relevant to the agreement

[Streetwise]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

A Credit Card Agreement should contain:

Heading -eg- Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Yours and the lenders name and address

The credit limit

Interest Rate

Repayment Arrangements - amount and frequency

Your right to cancel

Signature and Date set out as -eg- This is a Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

Attached or linked (but not in among the text of the above) should be the terms and Conditions relevant to the agreement

Does it not also have to have a signature for the company you are borrowing from,:beagle:

[labman]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

Indeed it should, sorry it is me being unclear, I should have put signatures and dates rather than signature and date.

Now my lines 100 x

I must learn to write what I mean.

[Streetwise]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

Indeed it should, sorry it is me being unclear, I should have put signatures and dates rather than signature and date.

Now my lines 100 x

I must learn to write what I mean.

Thanks for that Labman wasn't sure myself but have been learning,would love to be able to post up my agreements but i am following Mike Hawk on CAG,and keeping my powder dry,regards Streetwise.:beagle:

[labman]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/C..._Regs_1983.pdf

See page 12 onwards

[mtm103]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

Thanks all
The application form could be seen as the agreement if you include both pages, assuming both pages are the original, but that could only be proved in court?

I am not sure what step to take next, ignore them or wait 6 months or so and do a f and f letter? I am sorry i am so clueless, i have read soo msny posts, but at this point I am stuck!

[Angry Cat]

Re: mbna sold to Westcot Oct.. just got a letter from mbna re CCA

Ah, and application circa: 1994.
Thus the 1983 Regs apply.

Sounds like the norm for the Delaware cowboys...

Failure to provide an enforceable credit agreement together the correct issue T&C's.

The complaint becomes uncontrollable, it is then charged off and subsequently sold to a DCA buying firm.

It has been noticed that MBNA often send out letters of apology well after passing the buck to the toxic debt bucket.

Does their left hand know what the right hand has done or, is doing?
OFT requires MBNA to improve debt collection practices - The Office of Fair Trading

In short, if MBNA could not enforce the agreement. One wonders how a shower like Arrow Global will be able to?