Debt in serious dispute sold on

[dadmeister]

I was chased 3 years ago for a NatWest card default by Allied International Credit (AIC) who never came up with the CCA I requested.

Now I am being threatened with court action by Shoosmiths on behalf of Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd for the same debt. I emailed them initally and told them the debt was in dispute but they said they were within their rights to chase me for it as Arrow have purchased the debt 'in good faith'.

To start with I want to know can they do this and take me to court? Am very stressed over this as you would appreciate.

TIA

[Pinky69]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

This is par for the course when they don't have the agreement. Their "good faith" purchase is a lemon and if they have no agreement they cannot take you to court. A short letter reiterating that the ALLEGED debt remains in dispute and you will have no further correspondence with them on the matter. They will rant and rave and try to harass you. If they do, report them to the OFT for attempting to collect an unproven alleged debt for which there is no agreement.

[dadmeister]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Thank you Pinky69,

So I need to wait and see if Shoosmith come up with the CCA I suppose, even though I've not asked them for it?

If they do, what are my options? Sorry am new to all this :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[debtisbad]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Same happened to me with CapQuest. I told them to go.forth and.multiply, due to prior didpute with ICQ. They were stuck with the debt as they had "purchased" it, so.they had to.write it off.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Same has recently happened to me, Egg sold my loan in prior dispute to Arrow Global.

It was an absolute assignment to Arrow. Arrow have employed Wescot to recover a debt of £5500.

However, my dispute with Egg was not over the CCA but is about PPI and I reckon I'm owed a further £1100 from Egg.

Trouble is, they have absoutley assigned it to Arrow. So now the debt sum is in dispute with Arrow.

The FOS are not interested. they have said that they "prefer" creditors not to sell debts in dispute on but are powerless to prevent it. Egg have since told the FOS that they are not prerpared to recall the debt from Arrow but have admitted that the assignment has "complicated" their assessment of my PPI claim! All of this DESPITE there being a full FOS adjudication in my favour.

[debtisbad]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Can you explain what an absolute assignment is. Egg also got Arrow to write to me at an old.UK address-I live abroad.now. They were asking for money despite a prior didpute with Egg . There was also correspondence from Egg and Arrow saying the debt was assigned to Arrow, but now Arrow claim they are only acting.on behalf of Egg.

[Caspar]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

An Absolute Assignment is where the debt with its rights and duties are sold in its entirity to a third party. The third party effectively then becomes the original creditor as they have all the rights and duties of the OC.

The alternative, and more common form of assignment is an Equitable Assignment where only the equity is assigned to a third party (-ie- the actual amount owed), but the third party has no rights to, for example, take you to court unless done with the owner of the debt (the original creditor).

Hope this clarifies things.

[debtisbad]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Thanks Caspar. Obviously CapQuest was the former, which is why they lost (hahaha). Arrow are claiming to.be the latter. Let me check the letters from Egg and Arrow again, to see where the land lies.

[dadmeister]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

All interesting reading.

However, I am still unsure of where I stand if Shoosmith do come up with the CCA in the future.

Do I need to contact them to find out what sort of 'assignment' it was?

TIA

[Caspar]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

No, you should have had a Notice of Assignment from either the OC, the DCA or both. It should be clear what type of assignment it is from this, but often the type of assignment is given away in their letters through words like our clients may do x, y and z.

Arrow do often buy debts (Absolute Assignment), and if they're threatening court action, then this could reinforce this, but equally they often threaten court action knowing full well they can't take it by themselves under an equitable assignment.

[dadmeister]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Thanks Caspar, I'll be sure to check what letters I did receive from Arrow (if any).

[CleverClogs]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

I am still unsure of where I stand if Shoosmith do come up with the CCA in the future.

If...

[debtisbad]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

An Absolute Assignment is where the debt with its rights and duties are sold in its entirity to a third party. The third party effectively then becomes the original creditor as they have all the rights and duties of the OC.

The alternative, and more common form of assignment is an Equitable Assignment where only the equity is assigned to a third party (-ie- the actual amount owed), but the third party has no rights to, for example, take you to court unless done with the owner of the debt (the original creditor).

Hope this clarifies things.

The letter from Egg says this, so is it an absolute assignment?

"The transfer involved the assignment of all Egg Banking plc's rights as lender to Britannica-Arrow, who have agreed to perform the obligations of Egg Banking plc under the terms and conditions of your Egg Loan Agreement."

Similarly, from Arrow Global, the letter says:

"Notice of Assignment: We advise you that Egg Banking plc has assigned all of its respective rights, title and interest in respect of the above referenced account to Britannica-Arrow, effective (date)......"

Then I emailed Arrow telling them that there was a prior dispute with Egg. I used the template letter for prior disputes with OCs, which included the paragraphs:

"As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Egg Banking plc for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Westcot Credit Services Ltd, Arrow Global Receivables Management Ltd, and Britannica Recoveries S.A.R.L. cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities."

They replied y email saying:

"We have noted your comments on file, however, we feel that we must point out that we have not purchased this account and are acting on behalf of the client."

So have they bought the account outright or not? Thanks!

[The Debt Star]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Yes, it is absolute. I had the same letter - we all did. Egg sold off their sub-prime accounts enbloc to Arrow and the 'good' credit card accounts were assigned to Barclaycard.

So it looks like Arrow have the right to pass the account back to Egg if they want to, despite the absolute assignment. Interesting...

[debtisbad]

Re: Debt in serious dispute sold on

Why can Arrow sell it back to.Egg if it was absolute? It looks like Egg shafted Arrow.by selling an uncollectible debt. Due to a serious prior dispute.