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Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

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  • Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

    In Jan 2007 my partner & I bought our house from Mr & Mrs X.
    For about the past year now I have been receiving letters from Philips Bailiffs chasing Mr X for an unpaid Magistrates fine from HMCS North East London. I kept returning them.
    I have called Philips many times to inform them that Mr X was the previous owner but were told, very rudely may I add, that their records show that a Mr X still lived at our address.
    I followed this up with 2 emails to Philips stating that they were harrassing me for a debt that had nothing to do with me but the letters still kept coming.
    The last call I made, the operator told me that by law, I had to send my council Tax bill to them.
    I was not happy with this and asked her where in law this was stated. She did not like this question and just replied that if I did not send this, they would still persue the debt at our address and that a Bailif would be able to gain entry to our property....then she hung up!
    A couple of days ago I came home to a hand delivered letter of 'Notice of Attendance'.
    I then called the courts and spoke to a woman who said that they will try and send someone from the courts to verify who lived at our address, no one has come but another letter, headed on Philips paper saying I have to send proof in the post.
    My main concern is that the bailiffs can break entry when I am out.
    I am more than happy to show documents at my door but they are private & confidential documents and there is no way that I will be sending anything through the post!
    Today a 'Final Warning Notice' has arrived stating that the courts will shortly be considering issuing a warrant of arrest for Mr X......bit he is not here!!!!!!
    I would be grateful for any help.
    Regards

    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

    I've had a similar situation with Marrston Group. THey need to see reasonable proof that the debtor is not at that address . Why not take a copy of your current council tax bill to your local council along with the demands for unpaid council tax . Remember that the issuing council is vicariously liable for the actions of the bailiffs it appoints . They should be able to call off the bailfifs and you can also show then proof of th date you moved in. The outstanding amount isn't for this year or for when you've lived in the house ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

      The debt the bailiffs are persuing is for the previous owner of the house I now own, (we bought it from him in 2007).
      The debt is for an unpaid fine from the magistrates court, he obviously gave my address. A lady at the court said this is possible as once you have a link with an address they can accept it.
      Nothing to do with any council tax, I am up to date with all my bills, the bailiffs want me to send them my bill, to prove who lives at my address, which I refuse to do.
      Regards

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

        Read the bailiff guide, it's in a sticky at the top of this forum, sorry I can't do a link as I'm on my mobile at the moment. I don't see why you shouldn't send a copy of your council tax bill, to be honest, as the info contained therein is available on the electoral roll anyway so it's available in the public domain for anyone who cares to look. You could also swear an affidavit at court stating that the person they are chasing does not live there. Write to Phillips and point out that should they attempt to gain entry to your property you will report them to the police for unlawful entry, housebreaking and anything else you can think of. Copy this to the court as they are vicariously liable for the actions of their baillifs.
        Also check your credit files and if there are any links to the previous occupier put a note on the file disassociating yourself from them.
        Is no longer here

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

          Thanks for the reply.
          To me a council tax document getting in the wrong hands is asking for trouble. Also as I see it, why should I have to pay for copying and postage of a document that as you say provides the same details as the electoral roll...if anyone can see that then why can't the courts and the bailiffs?
          I have sent 2 emails to Philips stating harrassment for a debt that is not mine but the letters keep coming.
          I don't know where the law stands on breaking and entering a property as far as the bailiffs are concerned....my main worry.
          I am in the process of writing a formal complaint to the courts and copies to OFT & Philips.
          I have checked our credit files and there is no links to any previous occupiers.
          Regards

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

            They are unlikely to break in. The problem as I see it is you want to prove you don't live there, but you feel the onus of that proof should be on the bailiffs and not you. I agree entirely, but sadly that is not how bailiffs work. The onus of proof with bailiffs is on the person they are chasing to prove them wrong. You can shout and scream that this is wrong, and it is, but that is the case sadly.

            I'm afraid it's a case of swallow your pride and send off a copy of your CT bill or other proof that you live there. As Wendy said, this is public information anyway, so it is not going to harm.

            I do totally agree with you, but I've dealt with an awful lot of bailiffs for people and sadly it is up to you to provide the proof.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

              Thanks for the reply but I will NOT be sending any private & confidential documents through the post to anyone. This not a requirement of law.
              At the end of the day I suppose they take a big risk kicking my door down without first checking all the land registries & rolls that are at their disposal, especially has I have logged emails sent to them explaining this and suggesting they do so.
              If the onus of proof is with the person they are chasing then that is not me. Not once has a letter been addressed to me personally. They are looking for Mr X.
              I will keep updated....regards

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                emje,

                I respect your opinions and agree with the principles of them. However, in your first post you asked for help. We have suggested ways forward to help you, but you won't accept them. What action would you be willing to take to resolve this? If you can tell us what you would be willing to do, then perhaps we can come up with something that will help. However, at some stage anything suggested will require you proving who you are.
                Without knowing what you would do, there is little point suggesting resolutions that you will not accept.

                Please understand I am not criticising you, your principles are absolutely correct, but reality dictates you will need to prove your identity and they are unlikely to drive to your house to get this, as from their point of view thay have found the right person. They will get hundreds of people a day claiming they're not the real debtor.

                If you are prepared to make a phone call, you could ask the bailiffs the reasonable steps they have taken to ensure you are the debtor in question as the law states they must do this. If they don't respond, under the vicarious liability element of this you can ask the council as a Government Body, in writing under the Freedom of Information Act what reasonable steps their appointed bailiffs take to ensure the debtor being pursued is the correct person.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                  I'm with Caspar on this. If you are not prepared to prove to them that you are npt the person they are looking for, then they will continue to believe that you are. As long as this is the case you will continue to receive letters, visits etc. If you are prepared to put up with this endless hassle, fair enough. If however, you want a speedy end to matters, then take the quickest course of action, prove to them that Mr X is not you and does not live there.
                  Is no longer here

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                    Only thing to point out is, that the council don't have anything to do with it, if it's a magistrates fine, that's criminal, whereas fines to do with council would be civil. So the council wouldn't actually have any vicarious liability in this case.
                    Is no longer here

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                      Another approach is to send them a copy of your CT bill but just remove the CT reference number. As has already been stated the rest of the information is in the public domain anyway so you wouldn't be giving away any personal information other than how much CT you are paying.

                      If they continue to pursue after this you could then look at taking them to court for harrassment as you would have done everything that is reasonable to prove you are not the debtor in question.

                      Best

                      Crispy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                        Originally posted by emje71 View Post
                        The last call I made, the operator told me that by law, I had to send my council Tax bill to them.
                        stercus bovi est.

                        If you do not like sending a redacted copy of a council tax bill, you might try suggesting to those oafs that they check at the Land Registry - link - or, by clicking on "Find a property", you could buy a copy of the Land Register details to print out.

                        If you know which court was involved, you should contact the fines officer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                          Wendy B & Casper, I am in no way rejecting your suggestions and respect your opinions. I understand that information on the electoral roll is in the public domain but I don't want to put myself at risk of idenity fraud thats all. Sorry if you feel I am not accepting your help, but I did state already that I would not be sending any documents in the post.
                          My 'main concern' was if they could break into my property....as this is an area I am unsure of, hence my request of any help.
                          I apologise if this was unclear.

                          I understand it has nothing to do with the council as it is a Magistrates fine and therefore would be criminal.
                          The mention of the council only relates to the proof of documentation I have been told to send.

                          Kind regards
                          Last edited by emje71; 5th August 2011, 22:03:PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                            Can I just say that all your help is much appreciated!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Philips Bailiffs !!!!!!!

                              Don't worry, and you don't need to apologise!:tinysmile_grin_t: As it is a magistrates court fine they could break into your house, but they are unlikely to. It is used as the final extreme measure, but used as a threat much earlier. Ultimately with magistrate court fines you can go to prison.

                              Bailiffs are known for being dishonest in the sense of fabricating fees and charges, but I have never heard or read of one being done for ID Fraud.

                              If this is your main concern, then we go round in circles, as the only way you're going to guarantee this not happening is to prove you're not the person they're after, which means confirming your ID to them.

                              Whatever your concern, there really is no way of avoiding this. The ideas of Crispybacon and Clever Clogs may be a way forward. How far away is their office? Could you drive over with say your drivers licence and let them see it, but refuse to let them copy it? They need to confirm your identity, not to have a copy of it. I'm just trying to think of ways that would satisfy both them and you.

                              Comment

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