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Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

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  • #31
    Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

    RMG were sending their service charge invoices to my flat (that was rented to tenants) instead of my service address, and then sending a late payment demand to my service address via their sister company PDC, with their extortionate charges duly attached.
    I suffered this for a couple of years and then refused to pay their charges, paying just the service charge minus their late payment fees. A debt then built up and they would then contact my lender to pay the debt and add it to my mortgage.

    But Just when you think you are back on track and the debt is cleared, another debt appears from nowhere and without warning, and the process starts again.

    I am a professional person with no debt and good credit, I do not avoid paying my bills, but I resent paying extortionate fees.
    It makes my blood boil that these people are getting away with daylight robbery. They are working the legal system to their advantage, they know people do not want to pay out for solicitors to challenge the debt, and that its easier and cheaper to just pay it off, and if they don't pay it off, then the mortgage company will. Its scandalous.

    PDC recently had judgement awarded against me (in my absence) for fees of £1100 which escalated to £1400 with their costs added, and when it wasn't paid within 14 days they added another £1350 (for a sec 146 notice) because they contacted my lender for the payment. A total of £2750 I had to pay, and they would not budge when I asked for a reduction to get the matter settled over the phone.

    I wonder how much the next debt will be..!

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

      Hi Trig,

      I am shocked by the behaviour of this company. I am preparing a complaint to ARMA the trade association that RMG belong to, they are clearly in breach of several of their rules. The reason they are getting away with this is because people are letting them, it would be helpful if every one who had a complaint against RMG made a complaint to ARMA also, so it will be obvious RMG are systematically ripping their customers off and making a very tidy profit from it. When the banks behaved like this over unfair overdraft charges they were forced to pay back what they had un-fairly taken, hopefully, with enough people making complaints against RMG the same thing can happen here. I will be happy to turn my complaint letter into a standard form that others can use adding their details and their specific circumstances. Let me know if you would like a copy.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

        Hi Hamilton,

        I will be happy to have a copy of your complaint letter thanks, I was considering contacting the ombudsman but contacting ARMA sounds like a better idea. I will send my email address over.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

          Hi Trig,

          Thanks for that, I will send you a copy probably mid week; I have already contacted ARMA and I am waiting for them to get back to me about what they are actually able to do. I don't want to waste time writing to them if they cannot do anything, my time will be better spent writing to the ombudsman.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

            HI Hamilton and Trig, reading your posts I also unfortunately have a similar on-going issue with RMG and PDC.

            Basic back ground - we moved into our home late last year. We received a letter from PDC in September requesting payment for £545 which included £150 for the letter. I phone them up and asked why they had sent this, they didn't immediately have the information to hand, but the following day they emailed me copies of three invoices from RMG. The first was dated late July for a service charge for £301 ( subsequently I have found out that this is an annual service charge for maintaining the open land around the estate which all the residence own jointly and RMG are the managing agents).
            2 others were dated the day after the letter sent from PDC for land registry and administration charge with a further fee on the statement also provided for a reminder charge but they weren't able to produce an invoice for this, bring the total outstanding to £395 plus the £150 for the PDC letter.

            I phone RMG and offered to pay the £301, they informed me that they couldn't take payment. I then phone PDC and again tried to pay the £301 and again the money was refused, informing me they would only be willing to take the full amount as a settlement. They then threatened that they would immediately issue proceedings and lodge the debt with land registry, without any further communications.

            Given this I immediately placed this in the hands of my lawyers who categorically informed me that they had broken all due processes of law and were not entitled to the additional charges and their actions did not comply with the provisions of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols, further more both RMG and PDC had failed to take the necessary action required of them by law to limit their losses as far as possible by refusing to take the payment offered.

            Looking at the previous posts, there certainly seems to be a modus operandi with these companies.

            I am perhaps more fortunate than some that I have the access to a large legal firm who are more than willing to get their teeth into these guys - but would be interested in anyones else's experiences.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Advice needed regarding DCA letter for non payment of Property Management Charge

              Hi there, I wonder if I might get some advice having just encountered RMG Management.

              I purchased a property in Dec 2015 on a freehold basis but on the understanding that it incurred a circa £200 per year service charge for maintenance of some water pumping services that also service the wider residential development. I understand most of the other properties on the development are on a leasehold basis. RMG made first contact with me through a 'welcome letter' and invoice for the £232 which was dated 27 February (a Saturday). It arrived in the post on Tues 1st March. The invoice was extremely vague; it made no specific mention of exactly what services were provided. On a more sinister notes, the service charge was only £207 but they had automatically added an additional 'reminder fee' of £25.00, presumably because we didn't pay by the deadline of 27th February. There was no breakout in the invoice of the £25.00 which means it simply reads as being a total service charge of £232.00. We only realised there was a late charge when a second letter arrived on 2 March which gave us log in details for our new account where we were able to see that a 'reminder charge' had been levied against us.
              I have raised a customer compliant with them and have had no luck. I have paid for the services (£207.00) but have challenged the £25.00 and refuse to pay it on the grounds that they did not give me a chance to pay in time. They claim to have sent a letter on 9th February and have blamed the post for us not receiving it. This does not explain why their letter of 27th February has a 'welcome to RMG' cover note attached to is as if it is their first contact with us.
              On a related note, I pressed them via phone and e mail for a proper description of exactly what my £207.00 per year is paying for. In their own admission, via a reply e mail, they are unable to give me this information which find very strange indeed. They make no mention of a water pump and instead make vague references to communal areas (which we don't have access to!) which surely doesn't apply because we own the land. Furthermore, access to the water pump is on the land that I have bought.
              RMG's customer services have been very evasive and almost rude. They mention in their e mail today that they have frozen the account for 7 days but have made no mention as to what happens after that. I'm concerned that they will simply (and quietly) pass the £25 debt to a debt management company and the costs will then escalate, as appears to have happened to lots of others. I'm keeping records of all correspondence as I wish to fight this issue on principle.

              I'll gratefully accept any advice and the benefit of other peoples' experiences with this slightly odd company.

              Adam

              Comment


              • #37
                I see the last message on this was in 2016, but I wondered if anyone had an update on how they had got on challenging RMG /PDC? We just received a similar letter from PDC and are shocked how quickly the debt got escalated to them, and at the incredibly high fees that have been added...which add up to much more than the service charge we owe.
                Our situation is that we didn't receive the invoice or two reminder letters, admittedly our own fault....we were receiving them electronically and had email issues so didn't get them. The first actual paper letter was from PDC. I can't believe RMG made no other attempt to check we had received the invoices before escalating it to a debt collection agency. Though I was interested to read in a post above that they are owned by the same parent company, so escalating it quickly is clearly just amoney spinner for them.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by AndrewandJen View Post
                  I see the last message on this was in 2016, but I wondered if anyone had an update on how they had got on challenging RMG /PDC? We just received a similar letter from PDC and are shocked how quickly the debt got escalated to them, and at the incredibly high fees that have been added...which add up to much more than the service charge we owe.
                  Our situation is that we didn't receive the invoice or two reminder letters, admittedly our own fault....we were receiving them electronically and had email issues so didn't get them. The first actual paper letter was from PDC. I can't believe RMG made no other attempt to check we had received the invoices before escalating it to a debt collection agency. Though I was interested to read in a post above that they are owned by the same parent company, so escalating it quickly is clearly just amoney spinner for them.
                  I finally resolved my issue with RMG in 2017 after 4 years of fighting them. By then the amount they were claiming had escalated to over £1200! It is clear this is a complete scam, probably illegal and certainly needs to be tackled by the authorities. The trade association RMG are a member of were totally useless and I don’t see the point in them at all. RMG are clearly making the bulk of their profit from this dubious behaviour.
                  PDC constantly threatened court action against me (which I welcomed as I knew the court would never enforce their ridiculous fees), but they never followed through. I finally decided to take RMG to court to force them to remove the many bogus charges from my account. I chose to use the small claims procedure through the County Court. This is very easy to do, all the forms can be downloaded and they are quite straight forward to complete. Instead of submitting the papers to the court, I sent copies of them to the company secretary of RMG with a letter saying if they did not remove the completly bogus charges from my account within 28 days I would proceed with the court action against them. I didn’t need to wait 28 days, after 5 days I got an email apologising profusely for the inconvenience their “error” had caused me, an acceptance that the fees have been added “in error” and an offer of £50 compensation if I stopped the court action (I never saw the £50).
                  I suggest anyone in the same situation tries the same method, the last thing they want is their nice little earner being exposed in court for the scam that it is, so I would expect them to drop their claim against you very quickly.
                  I’m happy to help further if anyone needs assistance with the court documents, I’m sure I still have copies somewhere I can dig out for the wording that I used.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hi all

                    So pleased to see that others are taking these cretins (RMG) on as I have been backwards and forwards in whether i fight or give in!

                    My story below and any advice from anyone who won, or equally advice from those who didn't on why I shouldn't go legal, always appreciated. I know this thread is fairly old but any help is welcomed.

                    We bought our first house 2 years ago Freehold, and a solicitor took care of the paperwork in the whirlwind of purchasing and moving. We got a bill through from RMG in year one and I asked what it was for, and after seeing that £120 gets you 84% admin costs and the rest is for trimming grass and painting parking spaces nowhere near our property, I of course challenged. Due to us being broken into and house trashed (hopefully not connected), we paid RMG off as we were under a lot of stress and they already started threat letters, hoping to make them go away.
                    This year no request from RMG but instead Property Debt Collection Ltd (can anyone confirm this is RMG's sister company or connected?) billed us the £120 plus a couple of hundred admin fees to chase.
                    I called RMG and they couldn't speak to me as they claimed our names were not on the property, but miraculously, once they heard it was regrading an outstanding fee, they found my details (yeah right). I asked them to send me a copy of my agreement with them, and also a breakdown of these fees they were charging. They promised to send out, never received them. 6 months later, repeated calls, emails, promised by RMG docs to be sent, nothing, PDC now only ones allowed to talk to me apparently, and are claiming the chats, calls and emails I have proof of never happened, my account is on hold while they liaise with RMG, after I have stressed to them that their now £700+ bill is only due to the ignorance and avoidance of RMG as a tactic.
                    I have since found a form we signed on buying the house linked to RMG, so have offered to pay the £120 to make them leave me alone, but are fighting for the £700+
                    Today I got a letter from my mortgage supplier, who PDC have contacted behind my back to try and get the £700+ through them directly WHILE this is on hold and awaiting a response from my last communication with PDC!

                    So what do I do? Where so I stand and what should my next steps be?

                    All legal help is unavailable without high cost (due to them helping those being made homeless due to covid which I understand), Citizens advice say as I am Freehold they have no rights, and I am getting more and more confused as to where I stand here.

                    Hamilton (last post on here this year), if you have any docs or can message me with advice, please do.

                    Thank you all so much, and heres to not letting the bullies win!

                    (update - 4 residents in the area have made themselves directors and plan to kick RMG out, which I guess is why they are desperate for extortionate fees from us all!)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by insertname20 View Post
                      Hi all

                      So pleased to see that others are taking these cretins (RMG) on as I have been backwards and forwards in whether i fight or give in!

                      My story below and any advice from anyone who won, or equally advice from those who didn't on why I shouldn't go legal, always appreciated. I know this thread is fairly old but any help is welcomed.

                      We bought our first house 2 years ago Freehold, and a solicitor took care of the paperwork in the whirlwind of purchasing and moving. We got a bill through from RMG in year one and I asked what it was for, and after seeing that £120 gets you 84% admin costs and the rest is for trimming grass and painting parking spaces nowhere near our property, I of course challenged. Due to us being broken into and house trashed (hopefully not connected), we paid RMG off as we were under a lot of stress and they already started threat letters, hoping to make them go away.
                      This year no request from RMG but instead Property Debt Collection Ltd (can anyone confirm this is RMG's sister company or connected?) billed us the £120 plus a couple of hundred admin fees to chase.
                      I called RMG and they couldn't speak to me as they claimed our names were not on the property, but miraculously, once they heard it was regrading an outstanding fee, they found my details (yeah right). I asked them to send me a copy of my agreement with them, and also a breakdown of these fees they were charging. They promised to send out, never received them. 6 months later, repeated calls, emails, promised by RMG docs to be sent, nothing, PDC now only ones allowed to talk to me apparently, and are claiming the chats, calls and emails I have proof of never happened, my account is on hold while they liaise with RMG, after I have stressed to them that their now £700+ bill is only due to the ignorance and avoidance of RMG as a tactic.
                      I have since found a form we signed on buying the house linked to RMG, so have offered to pay the £120 to make them leave me alone, but are fighting for the £700+
                      Today I got a letter from my mortgage supplier, who PDC have contacted behind my back to try and get the £700+ through them directly WHILE this is on hold and awaiting a response from my last communication with PDC!

                      So what do I do? Where so I stand and what should my next steps be?

                      All legal help is unavailable without high cost (due to them helping those being made homeless due to covid which I understand), Citizens advice say as I am Freehold they have no rights, and I am getting more and more confused as to where I stand here.

                      Hamilton (last post on here this year), if you have any docs or can message me with advice, please do.

                      Thank you all so much, and heres to not letting the bullies win!

                      (update - 4 residents in the area have made themselves directors and plan to kick RMG out, which I guess is why they are desperate for extortionate fees from us all!)
                      insertname20 I can try and publish the docs I used to beat RMG, but they are on my old laptop, I'll see if I can access them. The process of court action was pretty simple because RMG didnt want to stand up in court and defend their charges and actions, probably knowing their scam would be exposed. The County Court form can be downloaded and is simple to fill in, I never had to lodge it with the court, just sending RMG a copy and the threat it would be lodged was enough. I'd really like to know if PDC have ever taken court action against anyone, I suspect they just bully people into paying their outragouse fees and more pay than dont.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Thank you Hamilton.
                        was it the Claim form N1 that you filled in and sent to them?
                        i just heard back from PDC who I wrote to asking why they felt attempting to claim £760 through my mortgage provider was fair, when they failed to respond to my last contact with them.
                        they said they would keep my file “on hold” for 7 days while I arranged prompt pa

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          insertname20 Yes, it was the N1 form. PDC tried to claim money through our mortgage provider several times, I expect this NEVER works and is just a way of applying further pressure.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Hi Hamilton, Letter and completed N1 form sent by recorded mail today, have given them three weeks to respond and drop all of the additional charges, keeping my offer open to pay the original fee, even though I still don’t agree to it, but know it’s the only legal point they can get me on. Will update whether I get a response, or whether they ignore or better take this to court. Here goes!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Hamilton Hi, I am having the same issues as many others on this thread, service charge was due for £250 but I never received an invoice. Now I have a bill from PDC for over £600! Is it possible for you to post what you put in the small claims form? I’m thinking of going down exactly the same route and writing a strongly worded email to them rather than going round the hills calling etc. Thanks in advance!

                              Comment

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