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Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

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  • Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

    I thought I'd start a thread for the first time in ages after being unexpectedly contacted by a company called Red Castle Recoveries for two alleged debts.

    They claim I owe them £155.08 and £446.83 for alleged debts owed to CIT Group (UK) Ltd. At first, I did not recognise what the debt was for, but last Sunday my wife answered the phone and found someone asking for me. Unsuspectingly, I came to the phone and found myself speaking to a representative of this company who told me the debts relate to purchasing a Dell computer some time ago.

    Now I know that I have one debt to Dell, but this is covered by an IVA that has been running for about year now. I don't however, know about any other debt allegedly owed to Dell. Gonna have to dig out the IVA forms and find out a bit more about this.

    Anyway, in the meantime, I have decided to follow CurlyBen's guide to dealing with these people.

    To that end, I sent a 'nice' letter to Red Castle Recoveries on 10th March 2010 which basically said:



    Dear Sir/Madam,
    Your Reference: XXXXXXXXXXXX

    You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

    I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to CIT Group.

    I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

    I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

    Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

    I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

    I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

    I look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully


    Evidently, this company are being a bit thick and in the conversation I had with their representative last Sunday he denied ever having seen such a letter. This is further evidenced by the fact that they continue to bombard me with calls and letters in regards to this matter.

    Therefore, yesterday I took the next step and sent them a full SAR request. To ensure that they cannot deny receiving the latest letter, I decided to send it by recorded delivery. This went out yesterday and should be received by them this morning. My latest letter says:

    Dear Sir or Madam:

    ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXX
    YOUR REF: XXXXXXXXX


    I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

    Despite my previous correspondence, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference, you continue to bombard me with unwanted phone-calls and letters in regard to this alleged debt. Therefore, you leave me with no alternative than to request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

    This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

    Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

    I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

    Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    For the sake of clarity, may I also draw your attention to the following:


    Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
    Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.

    Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

    In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

    1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement
    2. FULL Statement of account
    3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from CIT and Red Castle Recoveries.
    4. A fair processing notice.

    As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

    Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

    Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment, and will be reported to the relevant authorities.


    I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

    I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

    I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

    Yours faithfully


    So, have started the ball rolling to see exactly what they have and to find out where the second debt comes from. I shall be checking the IVA details later today to find the details for the known debt that is covered by the IVA and get my IVA agents to contact this company with a 'cease and desist' order as the debt is covered by the IVA.

    The other debt I simply want to know where it came from as I have knowledge of this.

    Will keep you all posted on progress.

  • #2
    Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

    OK. I have been somewhat lax on updating this thread.

    Basically, after sending the above letters to Red Castle Recoveries, I subsequently received the following response from them on 24th March 2010.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

      So, all well and good so far.

      Subsequently, I have not heard a thing from Red Castle since the above communication was received.

      However, this morning the following letter came in through my letterbox in regard to the above:

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

        As a result of the above letter from Resolution Legal Services (I noticed that they are also Worthing-based and wonder if they are part of the same company chancing their arm), I am somewhat bemused.

        Red Castle have NOT supplied me with any of the information that I requested of them. So as far as I can see, this supposed firm of 'solicitors' in the form of Resolution Legal Services have no basis on which to take me to court as Red Castle have patently failed to supply me with any of the information I formally requested of them.

        My reaction is that this is simply one of the 'threat-o-matic' letters from the Legal Team.

        I have considered sending Resolution Legal Services one of CurlyBen's 'Bemused' letters and see what response I get.

        However, I am uncertain of what the next step should be, so am looking for a bit of advice.

        Should I:

        a) File under Red Castle and ignore
        b) Respond to Resolution Legal Services with a 'Bemused' letter
        c) Write back to Red Castle reminding them of their last communication, that they have yet to furnish me with the information I formally requested of them, and of their stated intention that they would not be in contact with me until they have furnished me with the requested information and asking why Resolution Legal Services are now threatening me.
        d) Something else

        As far as I can see, were RLS to try to take me to court over this matter, then I have a perfectly valid defence in that none of the information I have formally requested from Red Castle has been supplied to date. Therefore, they have not proved that there is an enforcable debt and neither have they proved that they have the right to collect any such debt.

        I would be grateful for any advice from those in the know as to the next step.

        Cheers

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

          Well they are obviously very dim and either haven't had your first letter or are completely ignoring it, you quite clearly said you won't talk to them by phone and they give you a phone number for if you have any queiries...

          anyway, if it was me I would write to both, stating that until they provide you with a full breakdown of the alleged debt you won't be paying them anything. In fact you would welcome them taking you to court as at least it might throw some light on matters when they had to produce their evidence. Actually no, don't put that bit in but you get the general idea. There's various letters which deal with it, I'll have a mooch about and post one up in a bit. I did a good one myself to Moorroft recently which had the desired effect.
          ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
          I've used the following to good effect on numerous occasions, suitably edited...
          chuck in a bit about your previous letter and enclose a copy of it and your reply "May I draw your attnetion to my letter to you dated xxx and your reply dated xxx, copies of which are attached for ease of reference and for the avoidance of doubt"

          I am writing with regards to the recent Letter Before Action received on 13th August 2007.I consider this debt to be in dispute as your office, despite a request from myself, has not provided me with any breakdown whatsoever as to how this debt is made up. May I respectfully remind you that as the purchasers of the aforementioned, alleged, debt, it is your responsibility to provide details of the debt, and as such it was quite inappropriate of the gentleman who contacted me by telephone to suggest that I myself should contact Carphone Warehouse and ask for details of the amount outstanding.

          According to yourselves , the amount outstanding on the account is £xxx, which will remain in dispute until a breakdown of charges has been received from yourselves.

          As this account is in dispute, if you are unwilling or unable to provide the information requested, I suggest that the case is passed back to its originator, in this case Carphone Warehouse. If you are unwilling or unable to do this, then please be advised that any further communications should be in writing, not by telephone. I DO NOT give you permission to contact me by telephone, and request that my telephone number is removed from your records immediately.

          If full details are not received within 14 days from the date of this letter I will consider that there is no proof that the debt exists.

          I would also like to make you aware of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance in which it states: putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive This includes: Ignoring disputes about whether money is owed and refusing to freeze action if the debt is in dispute.

          I therefore hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and would like to request a written response to that effect.
          Last edited by WendyB; 2nd May 2010, 00:03:AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
          Is no longer here

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

            Cheers Wendy.

            I think the way to go may well be to use the 'bemused' letter to these supposed 'solicitors', adapting some of what you have written above into the letter.

            At this point, I'm not particularly concerned with their threats as without the documentation I have asked for, they would have little prospect of success in any courtroom. In fact, were I to challenge them to go ahead and take me to court then it may well shut them up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

              Well. letter has been typed up and enveloped, ready to be posted today. I've decided to make the letter a mix of CurlyBen's templates, and some of the contents of the letter posted by Wendy.

              The letter is therefore composed thus:



              I refer to your letter of 27/04/2010, which was received today.

              Frankly, I am surprised of the need to remind a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement request (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); which was acknowledged by Red Castle on 24/03/2010, and which stated that no further action or contact would be made until the requested information has been supplied. I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you.

              Despite my request, Red Castle have failed to provide me with the information requested. I would remind you that it is the duty of Red Castle to provide all of the details requested in regard to the alleged debt.

              Should your client now persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by Red Castle Recoveries under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

              If full details are not received within 14 days from the date of this letter I will consider that there is no proof that the debt exists.

              I would also like to make you aware of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance in which it states: putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive This includes: Ignoring disputes about whether money is owed and refusing to freeze action if the debt is in dispute.

              I therefore hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and would like to request a written response to that effect.

              Yours faithfully,






              I shall await their reaction to this, though I suspect they will go amazingly quiet.


              Cheers

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                So quiet you can probably hear an envelope drop, probably!
                Is no longer here

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                  Thats a great letter Jester. Now look forward to them back tracking but I don't suppose you will get a response from them it will just go quiet for a bit.

                  Tutts x

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                    I will continue to update this thread when things happen. Oddly, the letter I just responded to only concerned one amount, when Red Castle have been chasing me for two !!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                      Don't you just love low level DCA's and Red Castle certainly come into that frame.

                      BTW the "solicitors" are just the usual template seller merchants

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                        That's what I figured too CB, but I suppose it is quite fun sticking one's tongue out at them !!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                          You KNOW it

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                            Well, rather surprisingly I had a very swift response back this morning - by recorded delivery no less !!

                            Can't be arsed to scan it in, but basically it said:



                            Dear Mr Jester,

                            Thankyou for your letter that was received by our legal department Resolution Legal Services on 5th May 2010, the contents of which have been duly noted.

                            I can confirm that the correspondence that you received from Resolution Legal Services has been sent to you in error, and I apologise for this.

                            I can further confirm that both of your accounts remain on hold whilst we wait for a response from our client CIT Group UK Ltd



                            So, sent in error was it ?

                            More likely chancing their arm that I might panic at being sent an LBA and suddenly pay up. No chance of that happening. I need proof of such a debt existing.

                            However, what is quite amusing is that my suspicions above that RLS were merely part of the same company is confirmed by the wording in their letter.

                            Ah well, we shall go back to waiting to see what, if anything, occurs next.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Jester Vs Red Castle Recoveries

                              Hi All.

                              I have just had the same problem with Red Castle Recoveries; I received a letter the other day saying I have a debt of £594.68 which had been past to them by CIT Group (UK) Ltd. I had paid this debt off with Dell UK back in May 2006.

                              I have had a route around and checked my Experian credit history to find that the payment was indeed settled back in May 2006. I rang Red Castle up yesterday to dispute the debt, with the response from them that they have got an agreement with CIT, and the amount was due for immediate payment.

                              This morning I have contacted Dell UK to go over the account, to which they come back to me confirming that the account was settled back in 2006, but the system was not updated correctly at there end, probably due to a company takeover. Dell UK have now informed me that they will contact Red Castle to cancel any further action.

                              If you have not already spoken with Dell UK, it might prove to be the same problem I had; all contact details are below:

                              UNITED KINGDOM
                              Dell Financial Services Business Partner
                              Circa
                              2A High Street
                              Bracknell
                              Berkshire
                              RG12 1AA

                              End User Customers
                              If you are an End User Customer (and not a Dell BusinessPartner) please contact:
                              Consumer: 0870 907 4173 or ukcustomerservices@cit.com

                              Comment

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