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Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

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  • #16
    Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Hi again and thanks for posting again too.

    The first visit was 4th February - £24.50, second visit at 6.46am (no way would we have been out at that time - it was half term as well!!! Our bedroom is directly by the front of the house too! I get ready for work at the time and leave around 7.30 again in our bedroom at the front of the house.

    Do they have to do two visits first? Can they whack a levy on second visit which suddenly became £71 ??? I mean what did the guy do the make it £71!!!

    And then a van to pick up a car?? for £200 - it all just sounds a bit fishy - I wrote a letter to the bailiffs today requesting a full breakdown and that we will not be allowing them entry to remove goods as stated in their letter etc. This was copied to the council and I advised the council the letter was posted as we had no response to our email earlier this week. Miraculously the letter was forwarded to the MD at Chandlers who is now looking into it.

    I feel more positive but still worried and not sleeping well - but await the bailiffs response in writing regarding their fees so we can hang them good and proper!

    Can someone explain what a Distress Warrant is - the last letter from the bailiff says liability order / distress warrant?

    Originally posted by Amy View Post
    I would be inclined to say you should pay the council whatever you can and wait for the SAR reply to come back.

    The council have stated quite clearly that the first visit to you was made 15th February, but they also levied on the same date on the Laguna. They cannot charge a visit fee and a levy fee on the same date, but in case they get clever and try to alter the dates - let them hang themselves in writing first.

    The first visit was also timed at 6.46am, you have young children, is it likely you would have been out by that time in the morning?

    A bailiff cannot attend your property to remove goods without a valid walking possession order, which there is not and if they have only levied on the Laguna, what goods were they hoping to remove in a van?

    In any case, attendance with a van is when a payment arrangement has not been maintained. However, in your case you haven't even made an arrangemet with them to pay. They also quote their fees must be "reasonable". How can a fee of £200 for a visit to one property possibly be reasonable when one can hire a van from the Yellow Pages for considerably less?
    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
    Thanks - the sites say a reasonable time but suppose its a bit wooly?

    found this:

    Can a bailiff call at night or on a weekend?
    Only bailiffs collecting rent are obliged to call between sunrise and sunset, all other bailiffs can call at any time of day or night. However most bailiffs should call at a 'reasonable' time, either during normal office hours or between 8.00 a.m. or 8 p.m.

    so challenging this is an option but then as reasonable can be miscontrued!? but suppose its an option?


    Originally posted by TUTTSI View Post
    6:46am I am really sure is outside the Bailiffs allowed times to visit and unacceptable as I seem to remember this from some years ago when we also had a problem with a Bailiff also turning up at this time. I thought it was on the OFT web site but I could not find it. Perhaps someone will have the link to what is the allowed time for them to call. It is probably something like 7am - 9pm?


    I was not so knowledgable then and sites like this were not arround so it was not so easy to get this type of information.

    Tuttsi

    ps just done some researching and came up with this:
    Visits should ideally only be made between 6am and 9pm (or any time that the debtor is conducting business). Visits should not take place on Sundays, Bank Holidays, Good Friday or Christmas Day, unless legislation or a Court permits this. Respect for other religions and cultures should be upheld, and visits avoided on appropriate festivals and holidays.
    Last edited by worriedsussex; 5th March 2010, 20:43:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    • #17
      Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

      Reading that paragraph again it says 'or any time the Debtor is is conductiing business'? I personally feel that is a ridiculous time to call on someone between 6am and 7am?


      <ps just done some researching and came up with this:
      Visits should ideally only be made between 6am and 9pm (or any time that the debtor is conducting business). Visits should not take place on Sundays, Bank Holidays, Good Friday or Christmas Day, unless legislation or a Court permits this. Respect for other religions and cultures should be upheld, and visits avoided on appropriate festivals and holidays.>

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

        The confusing part is what date exactly the first visit was made.

        Originally posted by worriedsussex View Post
        first visit apparently on 4 Feb £24.50, second visit £71.00 and walking possession order issued which we do not have - then visit this week £200.00 totally £295.50.
        Originally posted by worriedsussex View Post
        First email from council

        The first visit to your property was made on 15 February 2010 at 6.46 AM. There was no reply but there was a vehicle at the property. The Renault Laguna had a levy placed on it and the bailiff posted the green levy document, through your letterbox, in a sealed envelope. A copy of the Schedule relating to Charges Connected with Distress was also left at this time.

        As mentioned in my earlier email, the fees at this stage amounted to £24.50 (raised on your case on 4 February 2010 in readiness for the visit) and £71.00 (raised on 15 February 2010) for the actual levy. The levy fee of £71.00 is based on a % of the Council Tax owed and is calculated in line with the Schedule.

        As Chandlers had not received payment or contact, a second visit was made on 1 March 2010 at 12.12 PM. This was done with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods. The fees for this are covered in 1.C of the Schedule and are defined as "reasonable costs and fees". In this case the fee was £200.00. The Laguna was not available at the time of the visit but a Notice of Bailiff Attendance was posted through your letterbox in a sealed envelope.
        Originally posted by worriedsussex View Post

        Dear Mr Horler,

        Certain bailiff fees that have been raised are, as you state, laid down in statute. You have been charged £24.50 on 4 February 2010 for the first Levy letter, they cannot charge for letters only 2 visits £71.00 on 15 February for a levy made following a visit to your property and a further £200.00 attendance fee on 1 March following a further visit. The fees now amount to £295.50.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

          Originally posted by Amy View Post
          The confusing part is what date exactly the first visit was made.
          Oh Amy I missed that!!!! we will see what we get back from Chandlers - I copied the letter that I sent to the council and the MD has confirmed she will action - mmm I am feeling a lot more positive on this and so hope they shoot themselves in the foot here!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

            Update again.

            Well I am now spitting feathers over this - it is such a mess and a complete confusion too.

            We have received a reply to our letter requesting breakdown of charges etc.

            The council initially replied (the guy there seems to be a complete idiot) as we copied him on our letter to Chandlers.

            He stated I hope the letter from Chandlers clarifies matters.

            I replied - we havne't had a reply

            He replied it is by post - I then said well I obviously can't comment if it clarifies things until I receive it!! and we so far had not received responses to any of our emails so had posted to them! (he said he had been replying on their behalf!) !!!

            He again wrote yesterday saying that we hopefully had received the letter (no we hadn't unless he has a better royal mail service than we do!) and he was unable to accept our repayment offer but happy to confirm the next years council tax (nice man!)

            We have replied though with an offer that means the debt is repaid in one year not two as this years council tax wasn't as bad as we expected (so there's a positive!)

            Well today we got home and had a letter form Chandlers.

            The discrepancy is on the first fee but the sudden appearance of a second visit not mentioned by the 'idiot' at the council.

            Mr Walker says that the first £24.50 was on raising letter in preparation.

            Chandlers state first visit £24.50 plus levy fee £71.00 - can they do this??? 15th Feb - where do I find the 'law' on this to state so I can hit them with it!!! Hard too!!

            Then they say next visit 16/2 - £18.00??? really - first we have of this - so a made up visit I reckon - the council have been replying and copying them in so where has this visit come from???

            Then visit 1st March with a view to remove goods £200.

            They also say enclosed Schedule 3+5 Charge Connected with Distress - not enclosed. Which says what they can and can't charge - helpful that it isn't enclosed.

            Enclosed break down of fees - not enclosed! very helpful!!!

            They also mention that as we no longer have the car we could be making ourselves liable for 'pound breach' - interestingly enough no copy of this levy enclosed either.

            And they require full payment under the Courty Order issued at the Magistrates Court and they can not prevent further action and costs on this case.

            So where do I find out for sure our legal position on all this - I need to know exactly what to quote etc. it all sounds very dodgy to me.

            I need to write to the council and Chandlers regarding this whole mess above but need solid evidence as to why its all rubbish (if I'm right it is) - where do we complain - do we have a complaint????

            Just had another row with the OH as all he wants is to resolve it and make an arrangement to pay and can't see what good this is doing?

            We genuinely didn't know of this levy as I said the car was a pile of rubbish and has met its maker at the scrap yard - they could happily have the heap - undriveable and unuseable!!!

            I'm now so cross about the whole thing!

            HELP and thanks if you got to the end again...and any help given

            R

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

              Ask Chandlers if this is their final reponse to your Subject Access Request, also ask them for the enclosures that were not enclosed.

              You cannot be liable for pound breach, as you were completely unaware anything had been impounded.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                Further update - opinions please...

                Have sent letter to Chandlers requesting the missing enclosures (I even said that this showed there lack of competence with paperwork!)

                In addition I wrote a very strong email to the council highlighting the emails received from them and confirming that the information they supplied was from information from Chandlers.

                I also stated that there were very large discrepancies supplied now and I would be pursuing this further as I did not think Chandlers had provided correct information etc.

                I asked for the guys managers name as well.

                Well we got a note back today saying :

                Chandlers supplied information regarding the fees charged and the dates on which they were charged. Any questions regarding their handling of your case should be directed to them.

                The Director of Chandlers is Mr C Waterman. His contact details are shown on their letter to you.

                The manager responsible for the Local Taxation Section is the Revenues and Benefits Manager who is Ian Morris.

                I note that you did mention that an attachment of earnings might be possible. Can you please confirm the names of the firms that you work for, their contact address, that you are in direct employment (not self employed).


                My thoughts are I will provide the information only if they agree to take the warrant back from Chandlers and that they agree to the offer we have provided. I also want to make sure they do not provide our employment details to Chandlers?

                What are your thoughts - I think they realise chandlers are making it up as they go along - the date of first visit/charges etc. and the new second date that has just appeared? and are looking to resolve - also our new offer is a reasonable offer!

                Thank you again.... Feeling slightly better - but not there yet!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                  With regard to Attachment of Earnings, it's not a question of them agreeing to your offer. If you have an AoE then there are strict rules about how much is deducted from your earnings, basically you won't have any say in the matter, the percentages are non-negotiable. I believe the minimum is 7% of nett k[pay, rising to 12%, depending on how much your nett pay is. Jowever, as far as I know if you had an AoE then their would be no need for bailiffs.
                  Is no longer here

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                    Ok thanks for that - they declined this offer initially but wondering why they are having a change of heart - anywhere I can look into it Wendy?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                      You need to stop asking and start telling.

                      Tell them the problem(s), how they should remedy them and when you expect an answer by - a letter needs a beginning, a middle and an end.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                        Amy my email today was very strong hence why they seem to be having a change of heart.

                        So do you think my we will discuss AOE if you take back the warrant from Chandlers is worth a stab?
                        ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                        Also I will be telling them Chandlers are acting on their behalf so its their responsibility hence why I am writing to them - they are not acting reasonably or truthfully so they should sort it !

                        Any recommendations?
                        Last edited by worriedsussex; 11th March 2010, 21:22:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                          Yes, do that. They are vicariously liable for the ations of their bailiffs. if you google attachment of earnings you should be able to find out the applicable percentages.
                          Is no longer here

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                            Well very happy girl now although I await the confirmation in the post - email received today.

                            The council are taking back the debt - Chandlers have been asked to return the case - all Chandlers charges dropped!!! Interesting that - all these fictious visits they didn't make maybe!!!

                            So thank you for the support and advice - am very pleased right now!

                            Anyone reading this don't give up and just battle away - they get themselves tied in knots with lies they tell and the trouble is most people just take it as red - well don't badger and battle with them - and get the council to take resonsbility they try not too but realise in the end (hopefully) that the bailiffs aren't acting correctedly.

                            Thanks again and good luck to anyone battling out there.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                              Nice one, well done. Keep on at the council and ask them what they are planning on doing about Chandlers.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

                                Well done you x

                                Have the council accepted a repayment plan as now they have taken the debt back?

                                Originally posted by worriedsussex View Post
                                Well very happy girl now although I await the confirmation in the post - email received today.

                                The council are taking back the debt - Chandlers have been asked to return the case - all Chandlers charges dropped!!! Interesting that - all these fictious visits they didn't make maybe!!!

                                So thank you for the support and advice - am very pleased right now!

                                Anyone reading this don't give up and just battle away - they get themselves tied in knots with lies they tell and the trouble is most people just take it as red - well don't badger and battle with them - and get the council to take resonsbility they try not too but realise in the end (hopefully) that the bailiffs aren't acting correctedly.

                                Thanks again and good luck to anyone battling out there.

                                Comment

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