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Thread: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

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    Default Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Hi,

    Have got lots of advice from the National Debt Line who were extremely helpful having received a letter saying they were returning to remove goods in 24 hours - no visit so far.

    Have tried to liaise with the council who won't go accept any offer - we have emailed them as well saying we will not allow the bailiffs in the house to remove goods. We did not receive any previous correspondence they quote they visited on 15th Feb (my husband was off with our children for half term and was home) so they didn't try very hard. Plus he would have seen the letter if posted through door.

    The council have responded to our email saying they will not accept our offer and that the bailiffs have a walking possession order on a car - which actually was scrapped the same half term week as it was so old.

    We have had a very bad run of luck redundancy and struggling generally.

    We moved in July 2009 and that's when things went wrong. But both working well now.

    We do not have this walking possession order - did not receive it and certainly not signed for it - but the council state...


    ----------
    I am unable to accept your offer of paying the arrears of £1666.49 over 24 months. This is an unacceptably long period for repayment. I am aware that you have made this offer to cover only the arrears and that you will pay any new liability in addition to this. However, I must also take into account that you have been resident at the property since July 2009 and the Council has received no payment on this account since your original bill of 10 August 2009. I also note that there has been no contact with the Council until after the bailiffs were involved in the case.

    I must therefore confirm that your offer is not acceptable and that you should contact Chandlers immediately to make payment. Any payments received by the Council, as you have indicated, will be notified to Chandlers and will reduce the amount outstanding. You should however make future payments towards this liability to Chandlers.

    You should be aware that Chandlers have already obtained walking possession on some of your goods and these are at risk if payment is not made.
    -------------

    We made a payment and will continue to pay the council.

    But does this walking posession stand - the car was on our private drive - also we dont have the car now - so what happens if it does stand??

    I guess as they have a walking possession the council think they are in a good position?

    Any advice will be greatly received

    Thank you - just want to know our next step if they have a legally gained walking possession order.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Hi WS

    A very warm welcome to Legal Beagles.

    Please have a read of Amy's guide to Bailiffs as there maybe some info in there that may help you.
    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=14113

    What advice did the National help line offer?

    One of the team will be along soon to help you very soon. In the mean time try not to worry.

    Tuttsi
    Please note that any advice given by me is from my own personal experiences and knowledge.

    My site name is after General Tutts who who won a famous battle at Newbury many moons ago 1643 - I hope to win all my battles and will fight to the bitter end.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Have you read the bailiff guide at the top of this forum yet? If not, you really need to Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles

    The Walking Possession will not stand. You have not allowed them entry to your property and they have not made two visits, despite the fact that they will claim they have. If in doubt about the charges added to your account consider sending a Subject Access Request - you will find a link to this in the bailiff guide.

    Councils always chant the line "there is nothing we can do, as your debt is with the bailiffs now". This again, will not stand. They are responsible for their bailiffs and if the bailiffs have lied, which it would appear they have, then the council need to accept responsibility for this and take some action against the bailiffs. But they will only do this if you complain.

    So, first things first then - send your SAR (including the £10 fee) and then write a letter of complaint to the council for their conduct.

    Lastly, I would add that although you have offered payments to clear the arrears, I agree with the council that this is a very long period of time - it is only equivalent to £70 per month. If you are both working now, could you increase the payments?

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    Have you read the bailiff guide at the top of this forum yet? If not, you really need to Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles

    The Walking Possession will not stand. You have not allowed them entry to your property and they have not made two visits, despite the fact that they will claim they have. If in doubt about the charges added to your account consider sending a Subject Access Request - you will find a link to this in the bailiff guide.

    Councils always chant the line "there is nothing we can do, as your debt is with the bailiffs now". This again, will not stand. They are responsible for their bailiffs and if the bailiffs have lied, which it would appear they have, then the council need to accept responsibility for this and take some action against the bailiffs. But they will only do this if you complain.

    So, first things first then - send your SAR (including the £10 fee) and then write a letter of complaint to the council for their conduct.

    Lastly, I would add that although you have offered payments to clear the arrears, I agree with the council that this is a very long period of time - it is only equivalent to £70 per month. If you are both working now, could you increase the payments?
    Thank you have had a read through for the bailiff guide - very useful. Not sure the SAR would help though as we havne't been bullied threatened into making payment by the bailiff at all or am I not understanding it?


    We initially spoke on the phone to the council offering £250 per month but revisited htis as the debtline said make sure its affordable. they very much seem unwilling to take this back.

    We have communicated by email to the council and the bailiff (same email copied to both).


    My main concern is this so called 'walking possession order' which we have not received at all and not signed for - will it hold water? Or is it merely the fact that we have not allowed them access to the property - despite the fact the car was on our drive? As I say we don't have the car now?

    I want to respond to the council but want to be clear I have the facts completely straight?

    Thank you - this really is a great forum

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    Thank you have had a read through for the bailiff guide - very useful. Not sure the SAR would help though as we havne't been bullied threatened into making payment by the bailiff at all or am I not understanding it?
    A SAR will show you what fees have been added to your account, then you will be able to protest them.

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    My main concern is this so called 'walking possession order' which we have not received at all and not signed for - will it hold water? Or is it merely the fact that we have not allowed them access to the property - despite the fact the car was on our drive? As I say we don't have the car now?
    It will not hold water because they have not attended your property twice yet. Vehicles are an easy target to levy upon as they cause the maximum upset and usually result in a near instant payment. However, in your case you scrapped the vehicle and were not aware of any walking possession so don't worry about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    I want to respond to the council but want to be clear I have the facts completely straight?
    Although the council claim they cannot deal with you, they can and you should just pay them direct and ignore their claims that you must deal with the bailiff.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    A SAR will show you what fees have been added to your account, then you will be able to protest them.



    It will not hold water because they have not attended your property twice yet. Vehicles are an easy target to levy upon as they cause the maximum upset and usually result in a near instant payment. However, in your case you scrapped the vehicle and were not aware of any walking possession so don't worry about this.



    Although the council claim they cannot deal with you, they can and you should just pay them direct and ignore their claims that you must deal with the bailiff.

    Thanks again sorry to keep coming back.

    I have a list of the charges from the council

    first visit apparently on 4 Feb £24.50, second visit £71.00 and walking possession order issued which we do not have - then visit this week £200.00 totally £295.50.

    Do you think the council will ever accept an offer - our worry is that if we go to more per month we will struggle as of course the next council tax year shortly and that will mean paying out so much per month on council tax alone really meaning we will be struggling for food etc.

    This is a 2 year payment plan at present and if things improve then of course we will increase payments - perhaps I should make this clearer to them.

    I'm trying to word my reply to the council now - should I ask for a copy of the walking possession order that we never received? or just continue to advise it was not received.

    Are they only able to collect the goods listed on the possession order anyway?

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    Thanks again sorry to keep coming back.
    Don't be daft, it's what we're here for.

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    first visit apparently on 4 Feb £24.50 - correct, second visit £71.00 - wrong, this can only be £18.00 and walking possession order issued which we do not have - then visit this week £200.00 - wrong, they can visit 3 million times but are only permitted to charge for two visits and then only if they are on separate days totally £295.50. Therefore, the maximum they should be charging you is £42.50.
    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    Do you think the council will ever accept an offer - our worry is that if we go to more per month we will struggle as of course the next council tax year shortly and that will mean paying out so much per month on council tax alone really meaning we will be struggling for food etc.

    This is a 2 year payment plan at present and if things improve then of course we will increase payments - perhaps I should make this clearer to them.
    For now, just pay what you can direct to the council. You might also like to have a look at this thread, post #5 in particular Rossendales Bailiff - Legal Beagles

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    I'm trying to word my reply to the council now - should I ask for a copy of the walking possession order that we never received? or just continue to advise it was not received.
    Definitely, you should ask for them for everything, but they will more than likely refer you back to the bailiffs, this is why I suggested going straight to SAR.

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    Are they only able to collect the goods listed on the possession order anyway?
    Yes they are, but in this instance the walking possession is invalid for the reasons I have already explained.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    thanks Amy that thread was very useful.

    Can I just confirm that a walking possession order has to be signed by the debtor or not? or a representative of the debtor - can a bailiff sign on our behalf? I'm getting confused on this one!

    Anyway have drafted a note to the council - how does this read?

    Thank you for your email and confirmation of the charges which appear to be over and above the lawful charges they can make?

    I am confused regarding the walking possession order - this has DEFINITELY not been received by ourselves and the first knowledge of the bailiffs visit was this week. Also it has not been signed by ourselves. So I am intrigued to know what is on this order as we have not allowed them entry to the property. I would therefore request a copy of this order as I believe this is invalid - Chanlders has never entered my property peacefully and as we have never signed a walking possession order then do not understand how this is valid.

    I will be shortly writing a letter of complaint to yourselves and Chandlers regarding their conduct.

    In addition the charges that have been applied seem way above what they are able to charge. Under the Council Tax Administration and Enforcement Act 1993 (as amended) a first visit of £24.50 and a second visit fee, if necessary £18.00. No further visit fees can be imposed thus the bailiff has committed fraud by false represenation, which is a criminal offence. As Chandlers acts as a agent for Lewes District Council, you are equally culpable and liable for the actions of Chandlers.

    I reiterate that we will not be permitting the bailiffs on our property and allowing them access and they have no lawful right to enter in my absence unlawfully.

    With regard to repayment, we have offered an affordable figure at this time and of course if things improve then payments will be increased. As advised we will continue to make payments to yourselves - which both you and Chandlers are able to accept but choose not to.

    Regards



    Thank again Amy


    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    Don't be daft, it's what we're here for.





    For now, just pay what you can direct to the council. You might also like to have a look at this thread, post #5 in particular Rossendales Bailiff - Legal Beagles

    Definitely, you should ask for them for everything, but they will more than likely refer you back to the bailiffs, this is why I suggested going straight to SAR.



    Yes they are, but in this instance the walking possession is invalid for the reasons I have already explained.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    Can I just confirm that a walking possession order has to be signed by the debtor or not? or a representative of the debtor - can a bailiff sign on our behalf? I'm getting confused on this one!
    Some say it doesn't have to be signed, I would argue that it does. In any case, it must be valid and they cannot apply a levy fee when they have not gained peaceful entry to your property.

    Try this and if have the name of the bailiff, have you checked to see if he is certificated?

    Thank you for your email and confirmation of the charges applied to my account.

    However, I request that you explain why your bailiffs have applied visit fees when I have not received any visits from any of your bailiffs and as such, I have not received any paperwork from them. Furthermore, the fees applied to my account for these visits are incorrect. The fees a bailiff is permitted to charge are prescribed in law, specifically Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and only two visits are permitted to be charged for and then only if the visits are made on separate dates. The permitted fees for these visits are £24.50 for the first visit and £18.00 for the second. Why has an unprescribed fee of £71.00 been added to my account for the second visit and why has a third visit been applied attracting a fee of £200?

    These visits did not take place and, therefore, the resulting walking possession order is invalid. A walking possession order may only be contemplated after two separate visits are made and also, in the case of the recovery of council tax, when peaceful entry has been given to the bailiffs.

    The bailiff has attempted to defraud me by adding unprescribed fees and visits and since Chandlers act as your agents, you are equally culpable and liable in this matter. Your bailiffs have committed fraud by false representation, which is a criminal offence and unless I receive a satisfactory response from you regarding the matters I have raised, I intend to make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman on grounds of maladministration, misfeasance and/or malfeasance in public office regarding your flawed procedures and failure to control your agent, Chandlers.


    Kind regards
    Last edited by Amy; 3rd March 2010 at 23:51:PM.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Major update - more help needed please:

    First email from council

    I have now had a chance to review your account.

    I did give you an outline of the bailiff's fees that have been raised by Chandlers in my email of 3 March 2010. These details covered the amounts of the fees and the dates on which they were raised. You are now asking for details of the actual bailiff's visits.

    The first visit to your property was made on 15 February 2010 at 6.46 AM. There was no reply but there was a vehicle at the property. The Renault Laguna had a levy placed on it and the bailiff posted the green levy document, through your letterbox, in a sealed envelope. A copy of the Schedule relating to Charges Connected with Distress was also left at this time. I am attaching a copy of this Schedule for your reference.

    As mentioned in my earlier email, the fees at this stage amounted to £24.50 (raised on your case on 4 February 2010 in readiness for the visit) and £71.00 (raised on 15 February 2010) for the actual levy. The levy fee of £71.00 is based on a % of the Council Tax owed and is calculated in line with the Schedule.

    As Chandlers had not received payment or contact, a second visit was made on 1 March 2010 at 12.12 PM. This was done with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods. The fees for this are covered in 1.C of the Schedule and are defined as "reasonable costs and fees". In this case the fee was £200.00. The Laguna was not available at the time of the visit but a Notice of Bailiff Attendance was posted through your letterbox in a sealed envelope.

    I did mention in my previous email that Chandlers had obtained a walking possession order. I now understand that a Levy was placed on the Laguna but that there is no Walking Possession Order in existence. In your case there was no one available to sign the Order. In these circumstances, a Levy is placed on goods that the bailiff can see. A Levy can be made at any stage and there is no requirement for a minimum number of visits before a levy.

    I can confirm that both Chandlers and Lewes District Council have acted fully within the legislation in the recovery of the outstanding Council Tax. I note that you suggest that Chandlers have made false representation but do not offer any evidence as to why you think that.

    You may, of course, choose to make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman. I will respond to any such complaint when required. In the meantime, I confirm that Chandlers will continue to recover the outstanding Council Tax amount of £1942.99 (including bailiff fees).

    I would again urge you to contact Chandlers immediately on 020 8290 5055 to arrange payment and prevent any further recovery action. No further notice will be given before this action is taken.

    My response:

    An interesting reply from yourselves and contradicts your previous email.
    I will seek further advice your initial email states that a walking possession order was in place and now you have changed this to a levy not walking possession order (although these appear to be the same thing?) and why did you state in your first email it was a walking possession order - then on querying the fees it has suddenly changed its name?

    I therefore only had your information to go on and state they could not issue the walking possession order (in fact I think they also are unable to issue a levy either) without peaceful entry - and therefore the charges are not correct based on your initial facts as they have not followed correct procedure - that was my evidence.

    I will be in touch with yourself in due course and will contact chandlers with an SAR to understand how these charges have been made.

    I would request further copies regarding the levy and visit 15 February, interesting at this time of day there would have been three cars on the drive and we would have been home.

    Why did you say in your first email that it was a walking posession order but now state it's a levy - I will of course get legal confirmation regarding what the difference is and why the bailiffs therefore feel they can charge £71.00 and subsequently £200.00. The last letter we of course have received and are willing to make payment against the debt as previously advised.

    In addition, I would highlight that the car in question was scrapped that very week as we were unaware of the so called levy visit. It was a broken down unused car.

    Final response from council:

    Thank you for your email.

    I did state that the levy had been made in my third paragraph of my email of 3 March 2010. This was correct. The difference between the levy and a walking possession order is the fact that the charge payer is present and signs the walking possession order. A levy is valid even without the charge payer's signature.

    The fees for the levy are as stated in both my emails. The mention of the walking possession order in the final paragraph was an error on my part and does not alter anything else in the emails.

    There is no need to enter your property to levy on goods outside the building.

    You mention the term SAR in your email. Can you please explain this acronym?

    You should contact Chandlers direct if you have any further questions regarding the fees, visits or their handling of the case. Chandlers have your full case details to hand.

    So where do we go from here????

    Any suggestions:

    We do not have the car so can they come and get something else - the car was worthless anyway would have been happy to hand the keys over there and then!

    What difference does a levy make?

    Have they followed correct procedure - they have not done two visits?

    Thanks again everyone - I feel sick with worry over this in fact have had a migraine all day and actually feel like throwing up.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Hi. I'm not exactly sure what to dvise but am sure someone will be along soon.

    What I do suggest is that you keep to one thread as that keeps things all in order and makes it easier ffor people to follow and offer advice.
    Is no longer here

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    I have a list of the charges from the council

    first visit apparently on 4 Feb £24.50, second visit £71.00 and walking possession order issued which we do not have - then visit this week £200.00 totally £295.50.
    From your post #6 - do you have this in writing? How do you mean "apparently"?

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    From your post #6 - do you have this in writing? How do you mean "apparently"?
    from the council's email

    see below:

    Dear Mr Horler,
    Thank you for your two emails. I am presuming that these were originally addressed to the bailiffs concerned and we have received the copies as mentioned in your penultimate paragraph.

    I have spoken to Chandlers, the Council's appointed bailiffs, about your case. I am responding on the Council's behalf although I am giving details of the fees charged by Chandlers. I am sending a copy of this email to Chandlers.

    Certain bailiff fees that have been raised are, as you state, laid down in statute. You have been charged £24.50 on 4 February 2010 for the first Levy letter, £71.00 on 15 February for a levy made following a visit to your property and a further £200.00 attendance fee on 1 March following a further visit. The fees now amount to £295.50. Any further details that you require about these fees can be obtained from Chandlers.

    I am unable to accept your offer of paying the arrears of £1666.49 over 24 months. This is an unacceptably long period for repayment. I am aware that you have made this offer to cover only the arrears and that you will pay any new liability in addition to this. However, I must also take into account that you have been resident at the property since July 2009 and the Council has received no payment on this account since your original bill of 10 August 2009. I also note that there has been no contact with the Council until after the bailiffs were involved in the case.

    I must therefore confirm that your offer is not acceptable and that you should contact Chandlers immediately to make payment. Any payments received by the Council, as you have indicated, will be notified to Chandlers and will reduce the amount outstanding. You should however make future payments towards this liability to Chandlers.

    You should be aware that Chandlers have already obtained walking possession on some of your goods and these are at risk if payment is not made.

    Local Taxation Manager
    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by WendyB View Post
    Hi. I'm not exactly sure what to dvise but am sure someone will be along soon.

    What I do suggest is that you keep to one thread as that keeps things all in order and makes it easier ffor people to follow and offer advice.
    wasn't sure if whether it would get picked up - my apologies feel free to delete the other threed.
    Last edited by worriedsussex; 4th March 2010 at 21:49:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    I would be inclined to say you should pay the council whatever you can and wait for the SAR reply to come back.

    The council have stated quite clearly that the first visit to you was made 15th February, but they also levied on the same date on the Laguna. They cannot charge a visit fee and a levy fee on the same date, but in case they get clever and try to alter the dates - let them hang themselves in writing first.

    The first visit was also timed at 6.46am, you have young children, is it likely you would have been out by that time in the morning?

    A bailiff cannot attend your property to remove goods without a valid walking possession order, which there is not and if they have only levied on the Laguna, what goods were they hoping to remove in a van?

    In any case, attendance with a van is when a payment arrangement has not been maintained. However, in your case you haven't even made an arrangemet with them to pay. They also quote their fees must be "reasonable". How can a fee of £200 for a visit to one property possibly be reasonable when one can hire a van from the Yellow Pages for considerably less?

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    6:46am I am really sure is outside the Bailiffs allowed times to visit and unacceptable as I seem to remember this from some years ago when we also had a problem with a Bailiff also turning up at this time. I thought it was on the OFT web site but I could not find it. Perhaps someone will have the link to what is the allowed time for them to call. It is probably something like 7am - 9pm?


    I was not so knowledgable then and sites like this were not arround so it was not so easy to get this type of information.

    Tuttsi

    ps just done some researching and came up with this:
    Visits should ideally only be made between 6am and 9pm (or any time that the debtor is conducting business). Visits should not take place on Sundays, Bank Holidays, Good Friday or Christmas Day, unless legislation or a Court permits this. Respect for other religions and cultures should be upheld, and visits avoided on appropriate festivals and holidays.
    Last edited by TUTTSI; 5th March 2010 at 18:30:PM.
    Please note that any advice given by me is from my own personal experiences and knowledge.

    My site name is after General Tutts who who won a famous battle at Newbury many moons ago 1643 - I hope to win all my battles and will fight to the bitter end.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Hi again and thanks for posting again too.

    The first visit was 4th February - £24.50, second visit at 6.46am (no way would we have been out at that time - it was half term as well!!! Our bedroom is directly by the front of the house too! I get ready for work at the time and leave around 7.30 again in our bedroom at the front of the house.

    Do they have to do two visits first? Can they whack a levy on second visit which suddenly became £71 ??? I mean what did the guy do the make it £71!!!

    And then a van to pick up a car?? for £200 - it all just sounds a bit fishy - I wrote a letter to the bailiffs today requesting a full breakdown and that we will not be allowing them entry to remove goods as stated in their letter etc. This was copied to the council and I advised the council the letter was posted as we had no response to our email earlier this week. Miraculously the letter was forwarded to the MD at Chandlers who is now looking into it.

    I feel more positive but still worried and not sleeping well - but await the bailiffs response in writing regarding their fees so we can hang them good and proper!

    Can someone explain what a Distress Warrant is - the last letter from the bailiff says liability order / distress warrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    I would be inclined to say you should pay the council whatever you can and wait for the SAR reply to come back.

    The council have stated quite clearly that the first visit to you was made 15th February, but they also levied on the same date on the Laguna. They cannot charge a visit fee and a levy fee on the same date, but in case they get clever and try to alter the dates - let them hang themselves in writing first.

    The first visit was also timed at 6.46am, you have young children, is it likely you would have been out by that time in the morning?

    A bailiff cannot attend your property to remove goods without a valid walking possession order, which there is not and if they have only levied on the Laguna, what goods were they hoping to remove in a van?

    In any case, attendance with a van is when a payment arrangement has not been maintained. However, in your case you haven't even made an arrangemet with them to pay. They also quote their fees must be "reasonable". How can a fee of £200 for a visit to one property possibly be reasonable when one can hire a van from the Yellow Pages for considerably less?
    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
    Thanks - the sites say a reasonable time but suppose its a bit wooly?

    found this:

    Can a bailiff call at night or on a weekend?
    Only bailiffs collecting rent are obliged to call between sunrise and sunset, all other bailiffs can call at any time of day or night. However most bailiffs should call at a 'reasonable' time, either during normal office hours or between 8.00 a.m. or 8 p.m.

    so challenging this is an option but then as reasonable can be miscontrued!? but suppose its an option?


    Quote Originally Posted by TUTTSI View Post
    6:46am I am really sure is outside the Bailiffs allowed times to visit and unacceptable as I seem to remember this from some years ago when we also had a problem with a Bailiff also turning up at this time. I thought it was on the OFT web site but I could not find it. Perhaps someone will have the link to what is the allowed time for them to call. It is probably something like 7am - 9pm?


    I was not so knowledgable then and sites like this were not arround so it was not so easy to get this type of information.

    Tuttsi

    ps just done some researching and came up with this:
    Visits should ideally only be made between 6am and 9pm (or any time that the debtor is conducting business). Visits should not take place on Sundays, Bank Holidays, Good Friday or Christmas Day, unless legislation or a Court permits this. Respect for other religions and cultures should be upheld, and visits avoided on appropriate festivals and holidays.
    Last edited by worriedsussex; 5th March 2010 at 20:43:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Reading that paragraph again it says 'or any time the Debtor is is conductiing business'? I personally feel that is a ridiculous time to call on someone between 6am and 7am?


    <ps just done some researching and came up with this:
    Visits should ideally only be made between 6am and 9pm (or any time that the debtor is conducting business). Visits should not take place on Sundays, Bank Holidays, Good Friday or Christmas Day, unless legislation or a Court permits this. Respect for other religions and cultures should be upheld, and visits avoided on appropriate festivals and holidays.>
    Please note that any advice given by me is from my own personal experiences and knowledge.

    My site name is after General Tutts who who won a famous battle at Newbury many moons ago 1643 - I hope to win all my battles and will fight to the bitter end.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    The confusing part is what date exactly the first visit was made.

    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    first visit apparently on 4 Feb £24.50, second visit £71.00 and walking possession order issued which we do not have - then visit this week £200.00 totally £295.50.
    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post
    First email from council

    The first visit to your property was made on 15 February 2010 at 6.46 AM. There was no reply but there was a vehicle at the property. The Renault Laguna had a levy placed on it and the bailiff posted the green levy document, through your letterbox, in a sealed envelope. A copy of the Schedule relating to Charges Connected with Distress was also left at this time.

    As mentioned in my earlier email, the fees at this stage amounted to £24.50 (raised on your case on 4 February 2010 in readiness for the visit) and £71.00 (raised on 15 February 2010) for the actual levy. The levy fee of £71.00 is based on a % of the Council Tax owed and is calculated in line with the Schedule.

    As Chandlers had not received payment or contact, a second visit was made on 1 March 2010 at 12.12 PM. This was done with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods. The fees for this are covered in 1.C of the Schedule and are defined as "reasonable costs and fees". In this case the fee was £200.00. The Laguna was not available at the time of the visit but a Notice of Bailiff Attendance was posted through your letterbox in a sealed envelope.
    Quote Originally Posted by worriedsussex View Post

    Dear Mr Horler,

    Certain bailiff fees that have been raised are, as you state, laid down in statute. You have been charged £24.50 on 4 February 2010 for the first Levy letter, they cannot charge for letters only 2 visits £71.00 on 15 February for a levy made following a visit to your property and a further £200.00 attendance fee on 1 March following a further visit. The fees now amount to £295.50.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    The confusing part is what date exactly the first visit was made.
    Oh Amy I missed that!!!! we will see what we get back from Chandlers - I copied the letter that I sent to the council and the MD has confirmed she will action - mmm I am feeling a lot more positive on this and so hope they shoot themselves in the foot here!

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Update again.

    Well I am now spitting feathers over this - it is such a mess and a complete confusion too.

    We have received a reply to our letter requesting breakdown of charges etc.

    The council initially replied (the guy there seems to be a complete idiot) as we copied him on our letter to Chandlers.

    He stated I hope the letter from Chandlers clarifies matters.

    I replied - we havne't had a reply

    He replied it is by post - I then said well I obviously can't comment if it clarifies things until I receive it!! and we so far had not received responses to any of our emails so had posted to them! (he said he had been replying on their behalf!) !!!

    He again wrote yesterday saying that we hopefully had received the letter (no we hadn't unless he has a better royal mail service than we do!) and he was unable to accept our repayment offer but happy to confirm the next years council tax (nice man!)

    We have replied though with an offer that means the debt is repaid in one year not two as this years council tax wasn't as bad as we expected (so there's a positive!)

    Well today we got home and had a letter form Chandlers.

    The discrepancy is on the first fee but the sudden appearance of a second visit not mentioned by the 'idiot' at the council.

    Mr Walker says that the first £24.50 was on raising letter in preparation.

    Chandlers state first visit £24.50 plus levy fee £71.00 - can they do this??? 15th Feb - where do I find the 'law' on this to state so I can hit them with it!!! Hard too!!

    Then they say next visit 16/2 - £18.00??? really - first we have of this - so a made up visit I reckon - the council have been replying and copying them in so where has this visit come from???

    Then visit 1st March with a view to remove goods £200.

    They also say enclosed Schedule 3+5 Charge Connected with Distress - not enclosed. Which says what they can and can't charge - helpful that it isn't enclosed.

    Enclosed break down of fees - not enclosed! very helpful!!!

    They also mention that as we no longer have the car we could be making ourselves liable for 'pound breach' - interestingly enough no copy of this levy enclosed either.

    And they require full payment under the Courty Order issued at the Magistrates Court and they can not prevent further action and costs on this case.

    So where do I find out for sure our legal position on all this - I need to know exactly what to quote etc. it all sounds very dodgy to me.

    I need to write to the council and Chandlers regarding this whole mess above but need solid evidence as to why its all rubbish (if I'm right it is) - where do we complain - do we have a complaint????

    Just had another row with the OH as all he wants is to resolve it and make an arrangement to pay and can't see what good this is doing?

    We genuinely didn't know of this levy as I said the car was a pile of rubbish and has met its maker at the scrap yard - they could happily have the heap - undriveable and unuseable!!!

    I'm now so cross about the whole thing!

    HELP and thanks if you got to the end again...and any help given

    R

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Ask Chandlers if this is their final reponse to your Subject Access Request, also ask them for the enclosures that were not enclosed.

    You cannot be liable for pound breach, as you were completely unaware anything had been impounded.

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Further update - opinions please...

    Have sent letter to Chandlers requesting the missing enclosures (I even said that this showed there lack of competence with paperwork!)

    In addition I wrote a very strong email to the council highlighting the emails received from them and confirming that the information they supplied was from information from Chandlers.

    I also stated that there were very large discrepancies supplied now and I would be pursuing this further as I did not think Chandlers had provided correct information etc.

    I asked for the guys managers name as well.

    Well we got a note back today saying :

    Chandlers supplied information regarding the fees charged and the dates on which they were charged. Any questions regarding their handling of your case should be directed to them.

    The Director of Chandlers is Mr C Waterman. His contact details are shown on their letter to you.

    The manager responsible for the Local Taxation Section is the Revenues and Benefits Manager who is Ian Morris.

    I note that you did mention that an attachment of earnings might be possible. Can you please confirm the names of the firms that you work for, their contact address, that you are in direct employment (not self employed).


    My thoughts are I will provide the information only if they agree to take the warrant back from Chandlers and that they agree to the offer we have provided. I also want to make sure they do not provide our employment details to Chandlers?

    What are your thoughts - I think they realise chandlers are making it up as they go along - the date of first visit/charges etc. and the new second date that has just appeared? and are looking to resolve - also our new offer is a reasonable offer!

    Thank you again.... Feeling slightly better - but not there yet!

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    With regard to Attachment of Earnings, it's not a question of them agreeing to your offer. If you have an AoE then there are strict rules about how much is deducted from your earnings, basically you won't have any say in the matter, the percentages are non-negotiable. I believe the minimum is 7% of nett k[pay, rising to 12%, depending on how much your nett pay is. Jowever, as far as I know if you had an AoE then their would be no need for bailiffs.
    Is no longer here

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    Ok thanks for that - they declined this offer initially but wondering why they are having a change of heart - anywhere I can look into it Wendy?

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    Default Re: Bailiffs Walking Possession order unsigned not received

    You need to stop asking and start telling.

    Tell them the problem(s), how they should remedy them and when you expect an answer by - a letter needs a beginning, a middle and an end.

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