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Snow Days

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  • Snow Days

    Hi peeps,

    I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this, I'm sure a lot of people are affected either directly or indirectly.

    Here's the outline...

    We have a small business and employ 2 part-timers, one of whom gets paid just for the hours he works so thats ok.
    We also have a part-time telesales lady who has a 6 year old daughter, sooooo as the school is shut she can't come into work.
    She left early yesterday to pick Mei Lin up and I'm paying her the full day's money, I want to pay her for today but my OH says that we shouldn't pay her.

    So here's the dilemma...

    Should we pay her or not ?
    Is anyone else in this position and how are you dealing with it ?
    Are there any workers out there who are being paid/not being paid for 'snow days' and how do you feel about it ?

  • #2
    Re: Snow Days

    On the news yesterday evening they said that the big supermarkets and larger organisation will not be paying their staff if they do not come in to work during this heavy snow period. But some are suggesting that they will pay but will have to make up the time.

    Have you given them contracts of employment? and does it make any relevance to unpaid time for any reasons?

    You are a very small business compared to the large supermarkets and stores and this is the way I see it. Only pay your staff if you are totally satisfied that they could not get in and that they are a valuable member of staff that you would not want to loose them, this is just my opinion.

    Tuttsi xx

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Snow Days

      Hi Sapphy
      I'm not in that situ but from a moral dilemma, I can understand your difficulty. As an 'objective bystander', I suspect your inclination to pay her a snow day and yr OH's not to, (both of which are understandable...) are based on one being ruled by head, the other by heart? If it were me faced with this, I'd be inclined to judge decision on a few factors to be honest. One would be your working relationship with the person... ie. has she been working for you for long.. is she a friend who's working for you.. your own ability to pay for non productive days... her expectations on pay... if its a more informal set up, I think if she'd actually turned up to work but you'd sent her home, then I'd say unequivocally, yes, she should get paid. If she rang and told YOU she wasn't able to work, ie. her choice to not come in (sorry to sound harsh) then I'd either pay her and ask her to work in lieu at a time convenient for you both at some point in near future... or maybe pay a part but not full day? (ie compromise) . If she's flexible and willing to give and take, then I'd be inclined to be the same, but if she's very inflexible and not a person willing to try to strike a compromise, then I'd be equally as inflexible. ie no work, no pay. I can only imagine it's gotta be tough to be boss but in business, you gotta be a bit 'distanced' to survive otherwise your heart will end up getting the better of you every time and you'll end up losing. Its my guess, if you'd agreed with someone you knew, lets say, to go and do a day's gardening for them and they'd agreed to pay you fifty quid... but holy moses, the heavens opened and all this white stuff meant you couldn't get your van off the drive. Therefore, the day gardening couldn't be done. Would you still have the expectation of that person payiny you that fifty quid? I think when you answer that question, it might give you yr answer. Its not like you're Mr Asda Walmart or (dare I say it) HBOS... but a very small, family run operation. If I were yr employee, personally....? I wouldnt be comfortable being paid for something I'd not earned... At the very least, I'd view it I owed YOU a days work if you paid me a snow day... hope that helps a bit, if only from an objective viewpoint? Good Luck. I'm sure you'll do what's right. catXXX (for all of you...)

      Paper clips - the larval stage of coat-hangers!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Snow Days

        Well I'm usually always on the worker's side, but in cases like this, Me and the boss were discussing it yesterday and I was left in no uncertain terms that if I were in the same situation I wouldn't be paid lol. To be honest, I don't think she should be paid. I think she should take a days leave for today if she wants paying for it. When my kids were young it was a pain in the butt when schools were shut etc, but if I had no-one to look after them then either myself or OH had to take time off as leave. What will your staff member do in school hols - schools will be shut then too.

        An alternative would be for her to make up the hours somewhere else, i.e work an hour extra each day till she's made back the time, then no-one would lose out.
        Is no longer here

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Snow Days

          Well I've known her for quite some time, in fact we worked together as telesales for a timeshare company and were the top 2 earners on the company. We used to have 'competitions' between us to see who could get the most each week.
          Therefore I know how good she is at her job, and because of that I am inclined to want to pay her.
          Also I have a great belief that if you look after your staff they will (hopefully) work harder and be loyal to you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Snow Days

            Yes I agree with you Sapph, perhaps you could have a word with my boss lol. As luck would have it, I had Wednesday off, which was the day with the worst snow. But I was lucky because I'd been sent home ill on Tuesday, so Wednesday has been counted as a sick day not a snow day, so I'll be paid for it.
            Is no longer here

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Snow Days

              It does not always work that way hun, in a perfect world maybe.

              I know several peeps that had businesses and really looked after their staff extremely well and then the tides turned the staff stabbed them in the back first oportunity.

              But I am great believer in giving rather than taking and if you feel you should pay her then that is the right decision for you.

              Tuttsixx


              Originally posted by sapphire View Post
              Well I've known her for quite some time, in fact we worked together as telesales for a timeshare company and were the top 2 earners on the company. We used to have 'competitions' between us to see who could get the most each week.
              Therefore I know how good she is at her job, and because of that I am inclined to want to pay her.
              Also I have a great belief that if you look after your staff they will (hopefully) work harder and be loyal to you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Snow Days

                Here is some info from the BBC

                BBC News - Q&A: Snow chaos and your rights

                Originally posted by BBC
                Q. I couldn't get to work because of the snow. Can my boss dock my pay?
                Very few jobs - except perhaps some of those in industries such as construction - have a clause written into their contract saying that if employees cannot get in to work because of weather they lose a day's pay.
                Employees have statutory protection against an unauthorised deduction being made from their wages, so if the employer has no contractual right to deduct pay and if the employee does not consent, deducting pay would be potentially subject to legal challenge.
                In any event, given the widespread disruption in many parts of the country and travel warnings not to make non-essential journeys, it is unlikely that many managers would take this step
                More info on the site as well as Health & Safety issues on travelling

                Originally posted by BBC
                Q. Anything else for bosses to bear in mind?
                Bear in mind there is a potential health and safety implication. If authorities are telling people to stay at home unless their journey is essential then, potentially, you may not want to put too much pressure on people to return to work.
                Employers have a duty of care to their employees and a potential liability may exist if employees were pressurised into travelling by car or foot when conditions were dangerous.
                Employers should therefore take a balanced approach between encouraging employees to make all reasonable efforts to get to work and forcing them into a situation where they feel they have no alternative but to travel to work or risk facing possible disciplinary action.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Snow Days

                  Some More Info

                  Snow chaos and employment law

                  This guide was written in January 2010. It is based on UK law.

                  Normally, a bit of snow is great fun. But adverse weather can give employers concerns about employee absence levels. This guide explains what employers need to know about the impact of bad weather conditions.

                  Minimum working temperature


                  As the winter weather bites, what protection do you have to provide for your employees from the chill?

                  For workers who work inside, certain regulations set out the rules on workplace temperatures. The general rule is that the temperature in workplaces should be at least 16 degrees Celsius. However, there is no legal minimum outdoor working temperature so employers need to rely on thermal risk assessments.

                  In very cold weather, outdoor workers face two major health problems: hypothermia and frostbite. There is therefore extensive HSE guidance about protective clothing for cold weather, health issues and management guidelines. (HSE suggests, for example, "allowing sufficient breaks to enable employees to get hot drinks or to warm up in heated areas.")

                  Paying staff who can't get to work


                  Do you have to pay staff who are unable to get into work due to snow and difficult transport conditions?

                  Employees are obliged to attend the office unless they are sick, on holiday or on maternity leave etc. The onus is, therefore, on employees to come into work. Technically, this applies even in extreme weather conditions. Therefore, if the office is open and employees cannot make it into work because they are 'snowed in', one view is that you are entitled to treat their absence as unauthorised and are under no obligation to pay them.

                  However, if an employee's normal mode of transport is out of action due to severe weather disruption, you may need to revise this view. First, you should encourage employees to explore alternative means of transport. However, employees should not feel pressured to risk their safety to get into the office so it may be sensible to consider whether employees could usefully work from home until the weather situation has improved.

                  If this is not a viable option, then the alternatives available are for you to advise employees that:

                  * any time off work in these circumstances will be unpaid (ideally, you will have a contractual provision to support this); or
                  * they will be paid but will be expected to make up the time at a later date; or
                  * they can request to take the time off as paid annual leave or as unpaid time off for dependant's leave (e.g. if schools close – see more about this below).

                  In practice, few contracts will state that employees who cannot get into work because of the weather will lose a day's pay. Employees have statutory protection against an unauthorised deduction being made from their wages without their consent and deducting pay could potentially be challenged as unlawful under these provisions (although the employer could argue that there was no entitlement to pay as no work was done.)

                  You should therefore assess whether not paying employees would be in the best interests of your business. It may be that the financial burden to the business of paying staff in these circumstances is outweighed by the benefits that such a gesture would have on staff morale and productivity in the long run – especially if the snowfall is particularly heavy and it is impossible to get into the office.

                  Enforced holidays


                  Can you require an employee who cannot get into the office to take a day's holiday?

                  This is not likely to be an option for employers. Unless the employee's employment contract contains an express right for the employer to direct when their holiday is taken, employers cannot force employees to take a day's holiday without their consent.

                  School closures


                  If schools are closed or an employee's nanny is unable to make it to work because of the severe weather and there is no one else available to look after the children at such short notice, what are the implications for employers?

                  To avoid the office becoming a temporary crèche, there are statutory rules which allow parents to take time off when there is an 'unexpected disruption to childcare' and parents are protected from suffering a detriment for doing so.

                  Arguably, a school closure is not the same as a disruption to 'childcare', however, if the school closure was announced first thing in the morning and alternative childcare arrangements cannot be made, this could be seen as constituting an emergency situation and employees would be entitled to statutory protection for taking the day off. Strictly, the day would be unpaid but not all employers will take this approach. It is also important for employers to adopt a consistent approach to the policy adopted for employees without children.

                  Working from home


                  If it is safe to travel, employees should come into work as usual. If employees are concerned that the conditions are not safe or if they are dependent on public transport systems that are badly affected, many employers take the view that employees should remain at home and do what work they can from there. This is becoming more feasible as many employees have Blackberrys or similar mobile devices and, if not, then they can access their work email and office applications remotely via a laptop, home PC or mobile phone.

                  However, even though they are at home, employees need to be clear that they must still work as far as possible (and not just watch TV). A home working policy could be helpful here making it clear that working from home is a privilege, not a right and that the employer will, if necessary, monitor output.

                  Falsely blaming the snow


                  What if an employee could have made it into work but chooses not to?

                  If you believe that an employee is using the weather conditions as an excuse for absence (or lateness), particularly if they live locally, this could be a disciplinary matter.

                  However, it is doubtful that most employers would want to devote time and resources to investigating the circumstances of each individual worker who is suspected of taking a 'snowball' day.

                  In a blatant or persistent case you may, of course, choose to investigate the matter in the usual way and take any necessary action in line with the company's disciplinary policy. Alternatively, when the initial conditions that made travel to work impossible have subsided, you could let employees know by phone, email or text that any further time off will need to be taken as holiday. You may find that once this has been communicated, employees suddenly start finding ways to get in.

                  Closing the office


                  What if you are forced to close the office due to the severe weather conditions?

                  If you decide to temporarily close your business premises at short notice because of unforeseen circumstances, such as heavy snowfall, and there is no work available for your employees as a result, you cannot usually withhold pay.

                  If you do, employees could bring unauthorised deduction from wages claims to recover the pay owed. The only exception to this is if you have an 'unpaid lay-off' clause in your contracts of employment, or the employees expressly consent to being laid off without pay.

                  There are, however, complicated rules surrounding lay-off clauses, including rules about statutory guarantee payments, and you should take legal advice before proceeding.

                  Should employees who actually make it into work be rewarded?


                  Employees who have battled into work, often against the odds, may resent the fact that others made less effort, especially if, once they are in the office, they have to work extra hard to cover those who are absent. Ideally, the employees' efforts should not go unnoticed – though days off in lieu or other financial rewards are unlikely.

                  However, employers should carefully observe weather warnings and let employees leave when appropriate to avoid any treacherous travel conditions on the way home. Never ask staff to disregard official weather and travel advice.

                  Minimise the chaos


                  It may seem that the UK is beset by 'unexpected' snowy weather every year. It is therefore worth thinking about alternative ways to manage the situation. Employers should consider introducing an 'adverse weather policy' so employees know what you expect of them when severe weather strikes. This will also help avoid confusion and conflict when the snowfall arrives.

                  Alternatively, you could amend your normal absence policy to cover such instances. The policy should contain guidance about workplace closures, disruptions to public transport, working from home and remote IT access, whether employees will be paid if they fail to attend work, disciplinary sanctions for 'snowball' days and whom employees should contact once they know they will be unable to make it in.

                  With occurrences of severe weather on the rise, putting in place a clear adverse weather policy could be a worthwhile investment.

                  Snow chaos and employment law | OUT-LAW.COM by Pinsent Masons LLP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Snow Days

                    My girls are not at school and I was told I either had to get into work or take annual leave.
                    In order for evil to triumph it is necessary only that good men do nothing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Snow Days

                      Question is, are they a benefit to your business?
                      Yes, then take the rough with the smooth, but say, hey don't take the mick.
                      No give then a writrten/final written warning.
                      swings and round a bouts, understande the workforce, is it **** taking or is it legit?
                      You must know your workers, if you don't you will always be asking the same questions.
                      Are they, will they, can they, if the answer is maybe or no, fire them get someone who will. it is your business, if you stand still you will go backwards

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Snow Days

                        I either take it as an unpaid day, or as a days annual leave. On the odd occassions it's happened before I've taken it as an unpaid day, then just made the hours up over the month so that I'm not losing out. If it ran into more than one day I've had the other days as annual leave

                        xXx

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Snow Days

                          Tbh this is the first time I've come across this kind of situation, I suppose I just wanted to mull it over with you all on here and get different opinions on it all. I can think back to when I was working for someone and always believed that 'staff' should be looked after, but I have always been aware that there are those out there that would take the 'p' bigtime .
                          Thanks peeps for your honesty and frankness, I feel I can see it from both sides of the coin.

                          Comment

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