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Bailiffs and the law

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  • Bailiffs and the law

    Hi All.
    I have a few questions I need to ask. Many of my questions regarding bailiffs were answered yesterday when I spoke to the National Debt Help Line, who I have to say were very helpful!
    I now know they can not gain forced entry into my home and that I need to keep my windows and doors locked!
    Two bailiffs called at my home yesterday morning at 7:20 am. They spoke to my hubby and informed him they had come with a van to seize goods. Thankfully he refused to let them in. They told him they would seize his van (his work vehicle). His response was take it, it’s knackered anyway. This seemed to put them off that idea, so they reverted back to saying they would seize our goods. My hubby asked them to leave saying that we were getting the kids ready for school and that he would ring them later.
    He rang them and they came back to the house. He told them he could only pay £500. They said OK. My hubby handed over my £500 Christmas money I had saved for the kids presents. After he handed them the money they told him they would be back on Friday for the remainder to be paid in full. He explain that there was no way possible to get that sort of money together. They suggested that he borrows the money from family or friends.
    I didn’t know what was going on as I was by this time in the shower.
    My hubby then rang the council number on the letter the bailiff had left. Once he gave the reference number the woman told him she could not discuss the matter with him as the debt was in my name, so my hubby said why not, they are going to seize my work van, her response was “yes, they can do that”, so hubby said “they can go and take my neighbours car then for my wife‘s debt?”, she told him he was over exaggerating now. I think he had a valid point?
    My hubby came and told me what had been going on and I then phoned the council. They told me they could not help and I would have to speak to the bailiff. I rang him and he told me the same he had told hubby and I needed to pay up or they would get a locksmith and seize my goods. I explained it was impossible for me to raise the money and explained that my hubby had given them my kids xmas money. He wasn’t bothered and again said they would be back Friday.
    I told him to bring back the £500 and take me to prison! He said they couldn’t return money that had been paid and it wasn’t that simple.
    After this I rang NDHL. They advised me on my rights and said we shouldn’t have handed over the money, but they understood how they bailiffs work to put pressure on you. They told me I need to write a letter of complaint to the council and to the bailiffs office and also to write to the council with a proposal of paying off the debt. They also told me to include a breakdown of incoming and outgoings, and to find out what charges the bailiffs had made to the debt.
    When I rang the bailiff and asked him for a break down he was very vague and told me he was on a job. I told him I had already rang the council and they had given me their figure including court costs, miraculously he was then able to lay his hands on my paperwork! He did go on to say he would be back and would seize goods. He told me he had a signed levy from me, when I questioned him on this he said that I had signed it back in August 09, therefore I asked him what was on the levy, the only item was my husbands van. I told him I had not spoken to a bailiff let alone signed anything. While this was going on my hubby heard the conversation and said it was him would had signed it. As we both have the same first initial the bailiff had taken it for granted that it was I who signed! I know it will be easy to prove that it’s not my signature as our sig’s are so different and I always use both my initials when I sign anything.
    I spoke to the council tax department yesterday and told them what had happened and explained that I could not get the rest of the money until January, she said there was nothing they could do to help as it had been passed to the bailiffs. Because I was upset and persistent she transferred my call to another department, telling me that Mr D***** was the bailiffs boss. I explained once again to Mr D***** what had happened and again he told me I needed to pay the full amount by Friday. I told him I was willing to send him a letter promising to pay the outstanding amount in full on the 7th January, he told me I had had ample time to clear the debt and my proposal was not acceptable. He also said that I had signed a levy for my husbands van and pulled out my paperwork, I explained again about this, but he told me I would have to prove it was not my signature and again told me I would have to deal with the bailiffs.
    1) Can these bailiffs walk into my home if my children open the door or another family member opens it to them?
    2) Have they broken the law by discussing my debt with my husband? I know he is liable for the debt also, but he is not named on any correspondence.
    3) Can we move his work van and hide it? (remember, hubby signed a levy for his van)
    4) If the council decide to put the debt into both names, how long will this take?
    Sorry this is so long winded, but I feel a full picture is always better.
    Thanks in advance for any advise
    Soulstar
    Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

  • #2
    Re: Bailiffs and the law

    Hiya

    Have a good read of this thread, there's all kinds of guides in there re Bailiffs.

    I'm sorry I can't really advise you on this apart from saying keep all doors and windows closed and DO NOT let anyone in, no matter what they say.
    Tell everyone who is likely to answer the door that they DO NOT let anyone in.

    Hopefully Amy or Cetelco will pop along later and advise you further.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bailiffs and the law

      Thanks Sapphire, I will keep my eyes skinned for a reply ;-)
      Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bailiffs and the law

        Have you read the Bailiff Guide? The link is here. You should send the Subject Access Request to the bailiff company and also copy in the Council. They are vicariously liable for the actions of their agents and as such are equally culpable should the bailiffs break the law. Sadly, they care very little about any of this as long as money due is collected.

        1) Can these bailiffs walk into my home if my children open the door or another family member opens it to them?


        They should not, but they may well if the door is opened to them. Therefore, if possible, the door should not be opened unless you know who is the other side of it.

        2) Have they broken the law by discussing my debt with my husband? I know he is liable for the debt also, but he is not named on any correspondence.

        If this is council tax then the debt is joint and several, although they may only enforce a Walking Possession Order if it is signed by the person named on the Liability Order.

        3) Can we move his work van and hide it? (remember, hubby signed a levy for his van)

        Yes. (see above - the signatory on the WPO is not the party named on the Liability Order)

        4) If the council decide to put the debt into both names, how long will this take?

        It is impossible to say and largely irrelevant anyway, since the debt is owed and bailiffs have been instructed.

        Your top priority now must be to have the council take back the debt. The bailiffs have lied to you by informing you that they will instruct locksmiths etc. This is simply untrue. They must not misrepresent their powers, or take powers that they do not possess in law. They have done both. You should therefore make sure that you make an official complaint to your council regarding the conduct of their agents.

        Which counciil and bailiff firm is it?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bailiffs and the law

          Hi Cetelco, the council is Denbighshire County Council and the bailiffs are employed by the council from what the council staff have told me.
          I did a check yesterday on the bailiff named on the letter that was handed to my hubby, and he is a certificated bailiff. I don't have a name for the other bailiff who accompanied him so could not run a check on him.
          For future reference for anyone else wanting to run a check on bailiff to find out if they are certificated, you can do this at the justice.gov web site. It's free and easy to do. The information you will get on the bailiff is which court granted his certificate and when it run to and from.

          2) Have they broken the law by discussing my debt with my husband? I know he is liable for the debt also, but he is not named on any correspondence.

          If this is council tax then the debt is joint and several, although they may only enforce a Walking Possession Order if it is signed by the person named on the Liability Order.

          I understand that it is deemed as joint, but as far as data protection goes the woman hubby spoke to at the council could not discuss the account with him, but the bailiffs can? It's just me looking for a little more ammunition to shoot at the bailiffs and the council.
          Thanks so much for your help so far!
          Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bailiffs and the law

            Local authorities are creatures of statute and would not hesitate to cling to data protection principles if it suited them, as you have experienced. Given that and the fact that the bailiffs are acting as their agents, you should point out to them that their agents have breached your rights under the Data Protection Act 1998 and you want to know what they propose to do about it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bailiffs and the law

              Thanks again for the info, it's just what I needed to know.
              Well, tomorrow is crunch time, they are due back so will have to be up bright and early so that the old brains cells have had time to kick in!
              I have to say with the knowledge I have gained this week I feel empowered and ready to tackle them.
              Hubby is not going to work (he hasn't been all week) as he doesn't want to leave me on my own to face them.
              It's so strange even though I know all the information I have been given is correct and lawful, I still have this little niggling doubt at the back of my mind, but I guess that's what these bullies do to you!
              I will report back tomorrow to let you know what the outcome of their visit is........that's if I haven't been dragged away in handcuffs lol
              Thanks once again
              Soulstar
              Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bailiffs and the law

                Keep strong, you've got a great bunch of people on your side here;-) wishing you everything good and a positive outcome for tomorrow and onwards;-) hugs, CatXXX

                Paper clips - the larval stage of coat-hangers!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bailiffs and the law

                  Thanks Catinahat. They have not showed up as yet, but I have a feeling they are going to keep us waiting all day. Maybe that too is part of their strategy..... call at 7:20 am then next visit, last call of the day?
                  Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bailiffs and the law

                    They may not turn up at all. This is how they work, using lies and threats.
                    Is no longer here

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bailiffs and the law

                      Wendy, you could be right.
                      They have about an hour left, but if they break other rules what's to say they won't break the sociable hours one.
                      It does make me think that they have realised they have made a cock-up? When I told him it was not my sig' that he had on his levy lol
                      Positivity breeds Positivity. Negativity breeds Negativity ;-)

                      Comment

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