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Unfair deduction

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  • Unfair deduction

    Good afternoon,

    I have been working part-time as a customer assistant and cashier since february 2017. I am student and I was delighted to find out that I got a job right around the corner from university, even if it was minimal wage paid job I agreed for an immediate start, as it was an opportunity to cover some of the student expenses.

    From the beginning I've been told that that I will be given a contract only after a period of "employment", in about April, I had the need for a payslip, this is when the things started to get weird(?) even though I was getting bank transfers(with the net wage, taxes deducted), one of my coworkers told me that officialy we are not working and that our employer keeps the "tax deductions" for herself.

    After an informal meeting with other employees we requested to be given printed payslip every payday (My first question, is receiving an official payslip considered to be a confirmation of employment?).

    Everytime after this incident when asking for the contract or any other document of employment, my employer was just trying to delay it, or just ignore any questions related to the contract.

    Over time, the employer started to impose rediculous and absurd rules work. In November while working alone on the till on a busy evening, someone shoplifted a receantly stocked up box of chocolate bars, after informing the managment I got a call from the employer stating that I am accountable for all the losses caused by the shoplifter ( Is the employer legally allowed to deduct any losses due to theft?), serving on the till and watching 2 screens with 16 cameras covering the whole shop in a busy evening as you can understand is impossible ( Can an employer make me accountable and ask me to be a security guard even if I don't have a license for that?).

    The next day in the group chat the employer came up with a new set of rules, even more ridiculous that the previous ones, what do I mean by ridiculous? one of the rules stated that if I am on the till, and there are no customers in the shop and basicaly there is no work for me to be done I won't get paid for the time "I was just standing there", and I am the person who has to keep track of how much time I worked and how long "I was just standing there", there were some other rules like if you work for 6 hours you are entitiled a 5 minute unpaid break, and for 8 hours shift a 10 minute unpaid break, before that all the break were paid.

    That was the moment I decided it's the time for me to leave. I wrote her a message stating that I do not agree with the new rules and I don't want to work in such humiliating conditions thus I am willing to quit the job ASAP, this seemed to backfire and trigger(?) the employer as she said that she will go back in time watch the cctv and deduct all the breaks and all the time I didn't work from my wage, my answer being that she can not impement the new rules with a back date.

    A series of accusations, intimidations and even threats followed, from the employers side. To what all this story was going, today was the payday, yesterday I have received my payslip (51 hr, 7.05/h), in the deduction section she included til error ( 60.59£), before she would attach reports from the till computer as evidence for any deductions, this time she didn't, the cost of stolen box of chocolates was aproximately worth this amount +/- 2£ , the difference between the total wage and the till error deduction was included as well in the deduction section (298.96£) as ADV recovery thus making the the total net pay 0.00£, I have not taken any money in advance as she is stating on the payslip, and as stated by gov.co.uk no deductions should be made with out my agreement ( with a few exceptions which do not apply to this case), any deductions made should be accompanied by a detailed description on the payslip or a separate sheet, which I never got.

    After trying to get in the contact with the employer I realised that she just blocked my number. What are the right steps to be done in this situation? Should I make an employment tribunal claim?


    Thank you in advance for your time and help.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 12th December 2017, 12:39:PM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Unfair deduction

    Mate, I wouldn't mess around with this person. I would report them to HMRC if they have been making bogus deductions. To deduct tax and nat ins and not account for it would be a criminal offence if they were not registered for PAYE. The deduction made from you for shoplifting are also wrong. It is not your fault and the comment about not being paid when there are no customers in the shop is also ridiculous. You are there working and if there are no customers, that's the owner's problem, not yours. Go for them through official channels and it won't cost you a penny, plus you should get back everything that you are entitled to.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Unfair deduction

      [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION]??
      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

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      • #4
        Re: Unfair deduction

        This is an unlawful deduction from wages and yes this would be something that you can make a claim via the Employment Tribunal.

        As has been suggested if you have concerns that although deductions for tax and NI have been made from your salary this has not actually been paid over to HMRC then you should contact them and explain the situation they can then decide whether to investigate.
        If you would like a one-to-one expert consultation with me on your employment issue than I can be contacted by emailing admin@legalbeaglesgroup.com

        I do my best to provide good practical advice, however I do so without liability.
        If you have any doubts then do please seek professional legal advice.


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        • #5
          Re: Unfair deduction

          Thank you for your advice, I have already submitted a request on ACAS, after I get an response and a reference number I am planning to make a claim to the employment tribunal. Also I am planning to send them a letter before claim, setting what I am claiming and what I will accept to avoid the process.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Unfair deduction

            Before you make any claim I think you should figure out what your whole claim is and check any taxes & NI have been paid correctly first. You can normally check those on the government gateway - here for example https://www.gov.uk/check-income-tax-current-year there is a check you NI contributions section too.

            Not sure you should have been paying tax as your income would be under £11500. Does the payslip have a tax code on ?
            Can you maybe type out the payslip as it appears.
            Did you give a weeks notice and did you work that week or get paid in leiu ? any holiday pay ?
            Was the 51 hours for the month ? ( paid monthly?)
            ( ACAS can give you a hand working all that out though if you're waiting ona call back from them have your payslip/s to hand - I'm not sure if they do any reporting to the relevant departments but you could ask them what you can do to try ensure others aren't suffering in the same way with those decidedly dodgy new ''terms'' of employment )
            #staysafestayhome

            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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            • #7
              Re: Unfair deduction

              Yes i do have a tax code, I have attached the payslip photo, blurred the confidential information. I have gave my notice which was not accepted, as my employer said "you are banned from this shop and I don't want to see you ever stepping a foot in this shop" have whatsapp messages from both the group chat and the personal chat with the employer, to confirm this. Because no one officially was given a contract even though we asked for one multiple times, the following system of payment was implemented ( as i assume so that they have a guarantee no one will just get paid and disappear after) we were paid monthly, for example you worked 4 weeks, you don't get paid by the end of the 4 week, but you have to work a 5th week after which you are paid for the first 4 weeks, in a way the payment for 1 week ( week 5) was held as a guarantee for them that you will return to work, next month you would get paid for week 5,6,7,8 after week 9 and so on.
              https://ibb.co/dbzsnw

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Unfair deduction

                As there was no contract we weren't granted any sick pay days or holiday pays, we were never given any statement that we are employed, only thing we have is the payslip which we asked for ourselves after confronting the management. About HMRC, how can I prove that she didn't pay taxes: all the payslips have a unique PAYE Reference number, I am sure if HMRC is contacted they can back track the first payslip, all the payments were made through bank transfers, the first one dating in early March, all the transfers were made from the same company account which makes it easy to prove that all the payments made before the first payslip obtained (late April) were made as "cash in hand" with out taxation being imposed, thus the difference being kept by the employer.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Unfair deduction

                  If you gave in your notice and the owner did not want you to work it then you should ensure you add this into any calculations.

                  As [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] says you should also calculate your pro-rata entitlement to holiday pay, take off any holiday you have taken if appropriate to work out whether you are owed any accrued but untaken holiday pay.

                  From the looks of this payslip you have not been deducted tax or NI in this pay period. It looks like there has been an NI deduction as some stage in the current tax year to the sum of £2.05, but there does not appear to be any year to date tax deduction which if some had been made should be detailed on the payslip In light of the fact your tax code gives you maximum personal allowance and you are a student it is unlikely you will earn this level in the current tax year.
                  If you would like a one-to-one expert consultation with me on your employment issue than I can be contacted by emailing admin@legalbeaglesgroup.com

                  I do my best to provide good practical advice, however I do so without liability.
                  If you have any doubts then do please seek professional legal advice.


                  You can’t always stop the waves but you can learn to surf.

                  You are braver than you believe, smarter than you think and stronger than you seem.



                  If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

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                  • #10
                    Re: Unfair deduction

                    So what has she explained that £298 Adv Recovery as ?
                    #staysafestayhome

                    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

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                    • #11
                      Re: Unfair deduction

                      Based on the payslip that you attached, there would be no Income Tax or National Insurance to deduct from you because you are earning well below the threshold for either. Your gross pay and takehome pay to date are the same at £4,137.38. Nothing has been deducted from you for either IT or NI.

                      Also, at that level of pay, your employer wouldn't have to pay an employer's NI contribution for you either for the very same reason. This is one reason why having two or three part time workers is preferable to having one full time employee, when employers taxes would kick in.

                      Your issue is to get the money that was unfairly deducted from you. That is what you need to focus on, rather than making inaccurate allegations about your employer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Unfair deduction

                        @Amethyst After receiving the payslip I tried to contact her, initially by giving a call ( which wasn't going through), after sending a message a message poped-up, that the message was sent but not delivered, which can happen only in the case when she blocked my number. I tried to reach to the general manager, he just marks the messages as seen with out answering any of them. I don't know their point of view on advanced recovery. [MENTION=107791]thedirtyhound[/MENTION]
                        I would be happy just to receive my wage, and forget that I have worked for this person. I want to take the situation that happened as a life lesson, and hopefully never go through the same mistakes again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Unfair deduction

                          I suggest that firstly you calculate all the outstanding payments you believe are due:

                          1. Notice pay
                          2. Any accrued but unpaid holiday pay if appropriate
                          3. Salary up until your leave date.

                          Then send a letter/email to the general manager explaining that these sums are still owing to you. That the deduction of £60.59 is unlawful and that you do not know, therefore require an explanation for, the deduction detailed as Adv Recovery. Include that you require a response within 7 days including details of when the outstanding payments will be made otherwise you will be making a claim to the Employment Tribunal.
                          If you would like a one-to-one expert consultation with me on your employment issue than I can be contacted by emailing admin@legalbeaglesgroup.com

                          I do my best to provide good practical advice, however I do so without liability.
                          If you have any doubts then do please seek professional legal advice.


                          You can’t always stop the waves but you can learn to surf.

                          You are braver than you believe, smarter than you think and stronger than you seem.



                          If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Unfair deduction

                            Okay.Speak with ACAS, they should be able to help you calculate what you are owed then you can look at whether to go through a tribunal or just to go to county court for the unpaid wages / unlawful deductions.

                            It does seem like your tax and NI have been being dealt with - simply that you haven't earnt over the threshold to have to pay any tax, and hardly any NI ( think it's £157 a week before any NI kicks in )

                            ( sorry crossed with Ula there )
                            #staysafestayhome

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            Comment

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