Lowell

[Snow]

Re: Lowell

Hi. Thank you for quick response. yes that is all. I get a photocopy of 2 agreements but just a front pages. It was a response to s77 with £1 fee. Yes, i asked for everything.

[warwick65]

Re: Lowell

Hi
So you asked then for the default notice, notice and deed of assignment as well as a S77 request.

From what I can see they have not sent anything

Some of your next step may depend on exactly when these loans were taken out and when the last payments were made as well as when they were defaulted.

My thoughts are maybe responding and saying something like
Thank you for your response however it seems you have not supplied all the documents I requested . In addition you have failed to fulfil my S77 request.

The problem with that type of response is they might just go away and find what you need and then you are stuffed

If you ignore and they do issue a claim you can still send a CPR 31.14 request and there is still an outstanding S77 request so you have the basis for a defence
[MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] any thoughts

I only know that whoever it was who owned my Provident Loan ( it wasn't Lowell) kindly closed the account when I told them they had not complied with my CCA request

[Diana M]

Re: Lowell

My initial thought is if the last payment was in June/July 2012 then this debt is likely to be within months of becoming Statute Barred so it may make sense to raise a dispute without acknowledging the debt to hopefully delay any claim being issued.

From what you say they have not complied with your s77 CCA Request. Don’t tell them exactly what they’ve not sent in case they reconstitute the missing documents.

‘Ask don’t tell’ is best pre litigation.

They’ll need the Default Notice in order to enforce the debt in court so ask them for it now rather than by a CPR 31.14 Request sent once a claim has been issued because once the claim is issued you will no longer be able to defend on the basis of Statute Barred.

Lowells tend to claim SB runs from the DN date unless payments were made after that date then SB would be from last payment made.

(my apologies for not reading back through your whole thread)

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Lowell

yes that is all. I get a photocopy of 2 agreements but just a front pages.

If there were two separate loan agreements then I expect they will need to produce two separate Default Notices, Notices of Assignment and Ts & Cs.

Di

[Snow]

Re: Lowell

Hi. Thank you. DI- I dont want to be a pain, but ive lost now. Should i ask for something more now, or they just didnt sent everything ive asked for? Can you please create a short template for me? Thank you very much ☺

[Diana M]

Re: Lowell

Thank you. DI- I dont want to be a pain, but ive lost now. Should i ask for something more now, or they just didnt sent everything ive asked for? Can you please create a short template for me? Thank you very much ☺

I'm not in a position to draft template letters on the internet (I have to respect my firm's insurance) but @warwick65 may be able to help you.

The FCA Handbook has guidance on how a firm (debt owner) must inform a customer (i.e. you) that their debt is unenforceable if they can't or haven't complied with a CCA Request.

It's CONC 13.1.6 here > https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

Di

[warwick65]

Re: Lowell

Hi
I have been having a think

Provident Loans are in general fixed term loans and I think usually 53 weeks long. When exactly did you take out the loans?

Now there are various things that you asked for but they haven't sent you although I am not exactly sure what you did ask for- I am afraid 'everything' doesn't tell me a lot. However, you did send a S77 request so I think in first instance you need to write to them telling them that they have not complied with your S77 request, I suggest s short letter along these lines

Dear Sir
Ref xxxxxx
I write in response to my request made on xxxxxx under S77 Consumer Credit Act.

The documents you have sent me do not fulfil my request and as such S77(4) CCA applies and any alleged debt remains unenforceable.

I would like to draw your attention to S77(1) CCA and also to FCA CONC 13.1 with particular reference to CONC 13.1.4 and 13.1.6 which clearly spells out your duties and obligations when a S77-79 request is made.

I look forward to you replying with an assurance you have closed the account and will no longer be contacting me.

Yours faithfully

Here is a slightly longer version

Ref: xxxxxxxx
I refer to my letter dated XX/XX/XXXX in which I made a formal request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) s.77-s.79 for a true copy of the regulated agreement referred to in the above account number. I also enclosed the statutory fee of £1.00.

To date you have failed to comply with my statutory request and have defaulted in respect of this account. Additionally this alleged agreement is unenforceable until such time as you come out of default or until it is enforced by a court of law. It is a further offence to attempt to enforce this alleged agreement until such time as your default is revoked. Similarly, in line with FCA Guidance surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the FCA has stipulated that Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements? Well under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• statements of account.

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

As this account is clearly unenforceable,I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place; irrespective, unless you do supply a lawful agreement I will not correspond with you again and I require that you clarify your position on this point as failure to do so, even by omission or lack of a response, will be regarded as an attempt to deliberately misrepresent or conceal the legal position regarding this matter to which an appropriate complaint will be made to the FCA.

Personally I would go with the shorter letter

Now if they actually come back with the documents then you can ask for the next thing that they haven't sent such as the Default notice .

If the worst happens and a claim is forthcoming I think you have a defence but for now lets try to get you to the Statute Barred date

[Snow]

Hi. I ve sent a shorter version of the letter and they ve sent me a response back. I ve check all the letter from them and I can not find point 1and 4. What to do next? I can not go to the court, I will loose my job. Do you think they can agree to get only £50/ month? That is all I can pay right now.

[warwick65]

Hi Snow

Please do not panic

I am really just a bit lost

You sent the shorter of the two letters along with the £1 fee?

They wrote back with just that letter or did they send anything else?

I believe that as long as that last letter you sent was over a month from a previous CCA request it is still valid and it matters not a jot what they say- they still have to comply

I think you haven't received a claim form is that right?

Have you received a letter of claim?

Please do not go making an offer without considering your options. There is very little on the thread to check.

maybe you could email kati@legalbeagles.info copies of what you do have with regard to the agreement, the notice of assignment and the default notice - include a link to this thread and I'm sure she will post them up. You could of course do it yourself and remove any identifiable information.

Lets go back to basics and assess your position, as Diana M says, now could be a good time to argue (carefully) with them and waste some time.

[warwick65]

I have a few ideas as to how I would phrase a new letter to them but I just want to see what you have

I know I would be tempted to send a letter telling them to go forth but there are much better tactics

And before you panic about court , you are a long way from that

maybe, once the documents are posted someone might be able to say if you have a sound defendable case

[Snow]

Hi. In August I got a CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT FOR £ £1908 and NOTICE OF SUMS IN ARREARS. In September PRE-LEGAL ASSESSMENT.

Them I sent the 3 letters, and I asked you for help. I didnt get anything else, the rest is here.

[Snow]

I have sent a shorter version od the letter with a £1 and this was the only thing I have back.

[Kati]

warwick65 ... all docs so far are shown on post #'s 9, 11, 13 and 23 of the thread
Snow ... did you email me (as per warwick65 's comment on post #24)?? If so, I haven't received anything ... can you re-send??

[warwick65]

Hi Snow
From what I can see they have not sent you what you asked for at all.
I just can't see if they have sent you a letter before claim which would slightly alter the speed of and tone of any reply I personally would send
However lets assume they havn't unless you say differently

Dear Sir
thank you for your letters dated ( use the last letter and also the letter in Dec where they said they would not correspond with you again), the contents of which have been noted. I notice, although you said you would not communicate further you did not say if this was your final response. I therefore require your final response.

I would like to remind you of your obligations under S77 of the consumer credit act, to date you have not complied with my lawful request.and as such the alleged account remains unenforceable under S77(4)

I would also like to remind you, I have also requested the default notice and all appropriate notice and deeds of assignment.

In summary I require you to
a) Comply with my lawful S77 request
b) Provide any relevant default notice
c) All and any relevant notice and deeds of assignment
d) Confirmation of the date you issued your final response

The purpose of my requests is to ascertain what responsibilities I may have to yourselves and without the above I am unable to do this.

Once received I can then take formal advice

I look forward to hearing from you

I

[Snow]

Hi, thank you for this. I ve check again, and that never sent me anything like letter before claim. Everything I have is here. I will send this letter tomorrow. Thank you