Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

[Mememe333]

Received a claim? Yes
Issue Date: 15-11-2017
Amount approx: 3500
Claimant: Cabot
Solicitor: Mortimer Clark
Original Credit: Bank of Scotland

Particulars of Claim:
By an agreement between Bank of Scotland ( ) & the Defendant on or around 01/03/2002 (the agreement), agreed to issue the Defendant with a credit card upon the terms and conditions set out therein. In breach of the Agreement the Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due. The agreement was assigned to the Claimant on 27/02/2017. The Defendant failed to pay & the Agreement was terminated

Stat Barred? No

Have sent:

Other Info:
Hi,
I received a claim for the above debt (which is not statute barred, payments have been made this year but not in full).
I just wanted to check im doing things correctly. I owe this and dont dispute paying but cannot pay in full and if theres any chance of avoiding a CCJ I thought I should try (the vague date gave me some hope they wont have original agreement).
I believe I now need to acknowledge the claim to give 28 days and send a CCA request to Cabot. Is there any chance that they could come back and say I need to go to BOS? And if so should it be sent to both to save time?
I was also going to send a CPR 31.14 but the guide says only ask for things in the particulars - so I only ask for the agreement - is that right?
And, if they don't respond in time, do I then enter a defence anyway - and if so would it be that there is no enforceable agreement even though I wouldn't yet know if that was true? Thank you!

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Hi
These are first steps First Steps

So you will need to send a CCA request off to Cabot and a CPR31.14 request off to MC asking for the agreement and the notice and deed of assignment

One question, who exactly is the claimant , About UK or something else. I understand if it is Cabot UK there may be issues there but I have no idea how to argue them

You really need to decide what you want to do
Set up a payment arrangement
Fight this to the bitter end and to hell with the consequences
Fight this but if it looks like they have a case then make an arrangement to avoid a CCJ

I know which option I would take but its up to you.

Personally I would also see if there is any free legal advice out there, I believe two firms represented on here with offer free initial advice and may do fixed fee work but I am not sure, you would need to contact them
[MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] or [MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION] might be able to help. Diana has an email link in her signature on her profile page, I am not sure about PT

[Mememe333]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Thanks, The Claimant is Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

Im slightly confused with making an arrangement to pay, from very quick reading up today then I thought that once a claim form was issued then only way to do this is to submit the admission form and that this by default results in a CCJ?

Probably completely wrong....... I've been reading lots of threads and lots of info which was why I wanted to check my understanding of the process. Is it possible a this stage Cabot would accept a repayment plan without issuing the CCJ? Or is the only way to avoid a CCJ now to defend the claim?

So basically, I want to set up a payment plan - just really need advice on if this is possible without a CCJ being registered at this stage (which in truth isnt the end of the world, but if it can be avoided I feel I should try, but im not going to fight til the bitter end.... )

Thanks again (and will look up other advice as suggested)

[Diana M]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

I believe I now need to acknowledge the claim to give 28 days and send a CCA request to Cabot. Is there any chance that they could come back and say I need to go to BOS? And if so should it be sent to both to save time?

. . . And, if they don't respond in time, do I then enter a defence anyway - and if so would it be that there is no enforceable agreement even though I wouldn't yet know if that was true?

Let me explain

The current owner of the debt is the one who has to comply with your s 77-79 CCA Request. If they can't comply then they cannot enforce the debt in court unless or until they do.

They have to produce your credit agreement, not anybody else.

So they can't say they haven't got it and tell you to get it from the original creditor.

In fact they should have had it in their possession before they issued the claim. Did Mortimer Clarke send you a 'Letter Before Claim' with a form to fill in giving you the opportunity to ask for documents which gave you 30 days to respond?

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

, The Claimant is Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

Im slightly confused with making an arrangement to pay, from very quick reading up today then I thought that once a claim form was issued then only way to do this is to submit the admission form and that this by default results in a CCJ?

Probably completely wrong....... I've been reading lots of threads and lots of info which was why I wanted to check my understanding of the process. Is it possible a this stage Cabot would accept a repayment plan without issuing the CCJ? Or is the only way to avoid a CCJ now to defend the claim?

So basically, I want to set up a payment plan - just really need advice on if this is possible without a CCJ being registered at this stage (which in truth isnt the end of the world, but if it can be avoided I feel I should try, but im not going to fight til the bitter end.... )

I see the Claimant is Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd which is unlicensed. This may be relevant to your Defence.

You've received a claim form and it's spooked you. You're talking of "not fighting to the bitter end" but maybe you need to establish your legal position first, before you assume you're facing Armageddon.

You're also keen to settle this and have read other forum threads. What I can say is no two claims are the same and what works for one doesn't always work for another. It's time to think only about you (as per your username ).

Your claim is under £10k so likely to be allocated to the Small Claims Track. This means that after you file a Defence you will be given the option to settle this using the courts free telephone Mediation service (if the other side agree too).

A settlement achieved at Mediation is not a CCJ but it is legally binding. More about that later.

I'm going to suggest you send a Subject Access Request to the original creditor (BOS) so you get the full history of this account from the start (2002). That way you'll know what documents the bank have in their files or more importantly haven't got in their files.

Because if the credit agreement has not been scanned/kept then the Claimant won't be able to get a copy from them if it doesn't exist. If the Claimant produces a reconstituted version you'll also be able to see whether it's 'honest and accurate' when you check what the bank sent you.

We have much to discuss!

Di

[Mememe333]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Let me explain

The current owner of the debt is the one who has to comply with your s 77-79 CCA Request. If they can't comply then they cannot enforce the debt in court unless or until they do.

They have to produce your credit agreement, not anybody else.

So they can't say they haven't got it and tell to get it from the original creditor.

In fact they should have had it in their possession before they issued the claim. Did Mortimer Clarke send you a 'Letter Before Claim' with a form to fill in giving you the opportunity to ask for documents which gave you 30 days to respond?

Di

Thanks for replying.

Yes they did send the letter before action (and a follow up as they forgot to include something with the original)

I see the Claimant is Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd which is unlicensed. This may be relevant to your Defence.

You've received a claim form and it's spooked you. You're talking of "not fighting to the bitter end" but maybe you need to establish your legal position first, before you assume you're facing Armageddon.

You're also keen to settle this and have read other forum threads. What I can say is no two claims are the same and what works for one doesn't always work for another. It's time to think only about you (as per your username ).

Your claim is under £10k so likely to be allocated to the Small Claims Track. This means that after you file a Defence you will be given the option to settle this using the courts free telephone Mediation service (if the other side agree too).

A settlement achieved at Mediation is not a CCJ but it is legally binding. More about that later.

I'm going to suggest you send a Subject Access Request to the original creditor (BOS) so you get the full history of this account from the start (2002). That way you'll know what documents the bank have in their files or more importantly haven't got in their files.

Because if the credit agreement has not been scanned/kept then the Claimant won't be able to get a copy from them if it doesn't exist. If the Claimant produces a reconstituted version you'll also be able to see whether it's 'honest and accurate' when you check what the bank sent you.

We have much to discuss!

Di

Ok thank you. So I should start with a SAR to BOS, a CCR request to cabot and a CPR31.14 to MC?

As mentioned above I did get a letter before claim but stupidly ignored it and also owe HMRC - this is under being repaid using all disposable income as priority. But I have multiple other debts that were in a DMP at one point but then for a while was not paying. I am now trying to set up token payments until i finish paying HMRC a which point I can properly tackle the rest. But I received the letter before claim when I wasn't dealing with anything and it was hence ignored. (Also I swear im not really as self obsessed as my username might suggest!).

[Diana M]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Yes they did send the letter before action (and a follow up as they forgot to include something with the original)

What did they forget to include with the original?

And what documents did they send you with their 'Letter Before Claim' (if anything)?

You need to break this task down into bite-sized chunks so it seems less onerous and overwhelming.

Login to MCOL and tick the box which says you intend to defend all of the claim.

Don't enter anything in the Defence box at this stage.

You will have 33 days from the Issue Date on the claim form (top right) to file a Defence so a lot can happen in that time.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

So I should start with a SAR to BOS, a CCR request to cabot and a CPR31.14 to MC?

. . . . But I have multiple other debts that were in a DMP at one point but then for a while was not paying.

Once you've safely filed your AOS (so they can't get a Default Judgment against you) you send the s 77-79 CCA Request to Cabot by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery including a £1 postal order for the statutory fee.

You should also send the CPR 31.14 Request to Mortimer Clarke and attached a copy of your s 77-79 CCA Request to the letter. Also send that Royal Mail Recorded Delivery.

When you get a moment I would also suggest that you send a s 77-79 CCA Request to all your other creditors (the ones which are loans, credit cards, HP, recent phone contracts with a handset etc etc) to see what they have or haven't got. If any of those debts prove to be unenforceable then you'll have taken that pressure off yourself for now

Di

[Mememe333]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

What did they forget to include with the original?

And what documents did they send you with their 'Letter Before Claim' (if anything)?

You need to break this task down into bite-sized chunks so it seems less onerous and overwhelming.

Login to MCOL and tick the box which says you intend to defend all of the claim.

Don't enter anything in the Defence box at this stage.

You will have 33 days from the Issue Date on the claim form (top right) to file a Defence so a lot can happen in that time.

Di

The first letter was dated 11/10/17 and states in the letter they included a financial statement, information sheet and reply form. However here was no financial statement. I received a reply form and generic information sheet. The third sheet is titled "important information" and gives some details about the claim..

Then on 20/10/17 I received a second letter that states they forgot to give important information and so have attached updated pages of the letter before claim. This is basically an update of the "important information" sent with the first letter (the only difference I can see is that it now states on there (that a statement of account is attached (it wasn't, to either letter)).

I will respond on MCOL now. Thank you

[Mememe333]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Once you've safely filed your AOS (so they can't get a Default Judgment against you) you send the s 77-79 CCA Request to Cabot by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery including a £1 postal order for the statutory fee.

You should also send the CPR 31.14 Request to Mortimer Clarke and attached a copy of your s 77-79 CCA Request to the letter. Also send that Royal Mail Recorded Delivery.

When you get a moment I would also suggest that you send a s 77-79 CCA Request to all your other creditors (the ones which are loans, credit cards, HP, recent phone contracts with a handset etc etc) to see what they have or haven't got. If any of those debts prove to be unenforceable then you'll have taken that pressure off yourself for now

Di

Thanks, I am going to CCA some of the others (there's quite a few....). Most are actually relatively small at a few hundred pounds and I could if it came to it get the money to pay in full to avoid a ccj (I just cant pay all in full rigth now). But there are two other larger ones, and the biggest is also over ten years old so I will start with those two.

[Mememe333]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Hi,
Thanks again for the help last month with this claim.
I still hav a week before time is up for submitting a defence but I wanted to make sure im clear what I need to do.
I sent the CPR31.14 to MMC and they did respond. They stated ...

"For the avoidance of doubt, the firm acts on t's clients instructions. This firm does not hold all the documentation you have requested. We enclose a copy of the notice of assignment.
We have asked our client to provide them and will come back to you as soon as we can.
In the meantime, the matter has been placed on hold and no further action will be taken".

I have not hear from them again or from cabot directly (in response to the above or the CCA request I sent directly to them).

I have read templates for submitting a defence and I can prepare that to reflect the fact I haven't received the documents. I guess I really just wanted to check this is the correct next step. Even though they've stated its on old for now, I do still have to defend it, right?

Thank you!

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - Cabot / Bank of Scotland - 15-11-2017

Hi
First point is
SUBMIT YOUR DEFENCE IN TIME

do not be fooled by the on hold bit.

As for your second question, yes you can amend the template defence as necessary saying nothing has been received and if they do cough up the goods then you will need to amend your defence

Remember as well, you need to at least mention all the points you may want to argue in your defence as you can not bring new legal arguments in later without jumping through hoops and asking if you can amend the defence- its not always possible.

I believe [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] has already said something about cabot (UK) and its not an argument I would be happy to advise on although I believe it has 'legs' - i.e it is a good argument. Times like this are often times when some good legal advice is needed - some firms, like the one Di represents offer initial (not ongoing) free advice