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  1. #1
    Elbie's Avatar

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    Default Parking charge notice

    I received a parking charge notice from a car park in Asda in Kings health (as owner). The driver was in the store on the day but delayed as the baby needed changing. There was no penalty notice on the car but the notice to pay came in the post a week later.
    Could you possibly help me with an appeal? I haven’t corresponded at all yet but today is the last day to pay at the discounted rate so if it’s worth appealing I need to do it ASAP I think. Any help very much appreciated.
    It isn’t leasehold or hp. I could get pictures of the signage if needed.
    I have pictures of the letter but can’t work out how to add them?
    Thanks very much.

  2. #2
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Hi Elbie, welcome to LB

    For posting documents, http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...details-safe!)

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  3. #3
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Have you tried contacting the manager at Asda?
    They do sometimes intervene, especially when there are good mitigating circumstances.
    The store manager at Asda Kings Heath is Stephen Thomas. If you need to contact the store for any reason, please use the phone number on the left.
    Asda Kings Heath Supermarket99 High Street, Kings Heath,
    Birmingham, B14 7BW
    Tel: 0121 4834410
    but today is the last day to pay at the discounted rate so if it’s worth appealing I need to do it ASAP I think.
    No pressure, then!
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  4. #4
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    The driver may have additional rights under the Equalities Act in that as the mother of a baby they have to make additional allowances, such as extending the time allowed, which is what I presume the parking charge is about. Speak to the duty manager, not the customer fob off desk.
    Last edited by ostell; 14th October 2017 at 10:24:AM.

  5. #5
    john1234567's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    yes, as suggested above, stores cancel parking fines all the time. Circumstances such as employees driving a different car for a day and not being on the safe list is one such example of when a store might interact with their parking enforcement contractor. i.e. the store manager will phone up with a list of registration numbers and ask for any related fines to be cancelled.

    Once you're aware that the store has the power to do this it is then up to you to make an emotional appeal to the manager, maybe in person if possible, i.e. when you next go to the store for shopping. Hand a letter to the manager explaining things so they can add your details to the list of fines they are going to cancel.

    Don't waste your time appealing to the parking company as they very rarely cancel penalty charges and as soon as you acknowledge the debt (which is what it is, you're in a contract and you've not paid) they will sink their teeth in and bombard you with letters and sometimes even phone calls until you pay. You will get letters anyway... but you're far safer not taking the bait and making contact if you intend to appeal to the store.

    So your only option is to get on the good side of the store manager, make it easy for them by handing them a letter with all the required information on it. Dates, times, reference numbers, your contact details. Make a note of the manager you spoke, time, date and anything they say... such as 'no problem, I'll get this sorted for you'

    If you don't have any success with the store manager then you could write to head office. Other than that, as suggested above, it is extremely unlikely that the parking company will let you off so then your only other option is to pay the charge.

  6. #6
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Ignore that advice about not contacting the parking company, that's a sure fire way of getting a court claim. You contact the parking company AND the store in parallel

    Post up a copy of the Notice to keeper, with personal details redacted and a photo of the signs. Help will be given to construct an appeal. What was the charge by the way?

  7. #7
    john1234567's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    It isn't helpful when people post contradictory advice on legal forums but as that has happened it is your choice which advice to accept.

    The problem with private parking companies is that they don't take people to court generally speaking.

    There have been a couple of cases where they have and where they were confident of securing a judgement and this has been done deliberately to set an example. In their threat letters they will now refer to particular judgements together with a line which says something like "don't think you can avoid court action, we refer to case of bla bla bla v.s. parking company where a judgement was secured" - but this is rare and meant as a threat, not a guarantee that they will, the cost of that sort of action means it isn't part of their normal procedure.

    The risk, which does exist and the reason you may do as ostell suggests and make contact... is that they will escalate the level of compensation they would like you to pay to an amount which is much higher than the discounted rate they offer in the first 14 days. So you could end it quickly at a cost, but if you disagree with the principle of the penalty charge notice under the circumstances then you can fight them. It is MUCH easier to pay the discounted rate than to go with any other option. There is no risk of accidentally falling foul of the court system as you will get lots of warning before it goes to court and you can pay a higher amount to settle the dispute before it gets that far.

  8. #8
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    John, You have shown your ignorance of the charges by referring to them as penalty charge notices. This is what people in authority can issue but not some private company. What they are issuing is a speculative invoice. They do try to add to the amount, and that early discount is to persuade people to pay early rather than fight what appears to be inevitable.

    I would suggest that you look at the pages of BMPA.eu to see if the companies do initiate court proceedings. PE did nearly 1500 times last year.

    Not responding to them could result in a claim from MCOL Northampton and not responding can be taken by the courts as unreasonable behaviour. Indeed in one case the keeper won but the keeper had to pay the parking company's costs because they had been found to be unreasonable by not communicating.

    By all means try and get the store to cancel, it's the easier route but do not ignore the PPC. mentioning that the mother of a young baby may have entitlement to reasonable adjustment under the Equalities Act (?) may result in an extension of time as an adjustment. Failure to make reasonable adjustment is a criminal offence.

  9. #9
    john1234567's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Quote Originally Posted by ostell View Post
    John, You have shown your ignorance of the charges by referring to them as penalty charge notices. This is what people in authority can issue but not some private company. What they are issuing is a speculative invoice. They do try to add to the amount, and that early discount is to persuade people to pay early rather than fight what appears to be inevitable.

    I would suggest that you look at the pages of BMPA.eu to see if the companies do initiate court proceedings. PE did nearly 1500 times last year.

    Not responding to them could result in a claim from MCOL Northampton and not responding can be taken by the courts as unreasonable behaviour. Indeed in one case the keeper won but the keeper had to pay the parking company's costs because they had been found to be unreasonable by not communicating.

    By all means try and get the store to cancel, it's the easier route but do not ignore the PPC. mentioning that the mother of a young baby may have entitlement to reasonable adjustment under the Equalities Act (?) may result in an extension of time as an adjustment. Failure to make reasonable adjustment is a criminal offence.
    You're right to pull me up on my translation of PCN. I'm fully aware the private parking companies do not mean 'penalty charge notice' when they use that term. Believe me, I've done many of these disputes in the past and read the regulations back to front. Whether it is the local authority pcn or the private parking pcn the risk is still the same. The only difference being that it is significantly more risky playing brinkmanship with a local authority as they nearly always go to court.

    Just to be clear, my advice was to pay the discounted rate or if you don't want to do that then try to resolve though the store. If not then deal with the parking company and pay whatever escalated fee they are demanding. The risk is the fee going up, not so much being taken to court as you can always side-step that by paying later on in the process. You must be notified before they go to court so you will have ample warning if other resolutions have not succeeded.

  10. #10
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    No one suggested paying the parking company.

  11. #11
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Yep.
    As @ostell says, pics of NtK & signs, please.

    As for there being no contract if you don't acknowledge the debt, their Lordships, in the Supreme Court, said
    94. It was common ground before the Court of Appeal, and is common ground in this court, that on the facts which we have just summarised there was a contract between Mr Beavis and ParkingEye. Mr Beavis had a contractual licence to park his car in the retail park on the terms of the notice posted at the entrance, which he accepted by entering the site.
    Feel free if you wish to argue with them.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
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    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  12. #12
    john1234567's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    Yep.
    As @ostell says, pics of NtK & signs, please.

    As for there being no contract if you don't acknowledge the debt, their Lordships, in the Supreme Court, said

    Feel free if you wish to argue with them.
    I remember when that used to work. I wouldn't suggest anybody try that. Essentially what I'm saying is that trying to appeal to the parking company is a waste of time. They offer an appeals process as a fig leaf to cover what they have to in accordance with the regulations.

    In this case there is no question of the legitimacy of the charge. The parking company have this one in the bag. The only thing which will work is appealing to the store.

    The appeal depends on a person accepting the mitigation that the overstay was not intentional but rather caused when an infant required some urgent care. The person the appeal is directed at is critically important. Nobody at the parking company is going to allow an appeal on emotional grounds. The store that contracts the parking company might and they do have the power to instruct their supplier to end their action.

    If a payment is made it will be to the parking company or debt collectors working on behalf of the parking company.

  13. #13
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking charge notice

    Quote Originally Posted by john1234567 View Post

    In this case there is no question of the legitimacy of the charge. The parking company have this one in the bag. The only thing which will work is appealing to the store.
    How do you know this without seeing the contract (ie site sign) or the official notification (Notice to Keeper)?

    The appeal depends on a person accepting the mitigation that the overstay was not intentional but rather caused when an infant required some urgent care. The person the appeal is directed at is critically important. Nobody at the parking company is going to allow an appeal on emotional grounds.
    Fair point, but in the many cases I've seen recently I have not seen one 'soft appeal' to a parking co upheld.
    Mind you, if it was would I know about it?
    All I can do is read the info widely available in the press & on the 'net & draw my own conclusions.

    The store that contracts the parking company might and they do have the power to instruct their supplier to end their action.
    They have leverage, but not necessarily the right.
    ####
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

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