Question ?? Advice ??

[soletrader]

As a soletrader, most of your works are agreed on trust - but you do come across clients that not only avoid payment but deliberately get you to do worth without any intention of paying you in the first place.. or deccide they are not going to pay you the agreed price when the job is complete.

E.G Contracted to erect £6000 of fencing only to realise in the last few days of the job that this client had not paid the electrician nor the kitchen fitter so they had downed tools and left the site. The client had conveniently left the country at this time.

Bad debtor YES.

I was wondering would it be illegal if there was a website where sole traders could leave reviews on clients privately of course not open to the public?

Spoke to the FCA and they didn't see from their point of view that this would be wrong

I just think it would be a useful tool for the "littleman"?

But would it be illegal would it break data protection laws? Is it a silly idea?

[R0b]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

What you are suggesting will fall within the remit of data protection laws. The Data Protection Act 1998 is the current legislation but is currently about to be overhauled massively by the GDPR in May 2018, with potentially massive fines for data breaches.

Are you aware of the recent saga surrounding construction workers and a blacklist that had been created for the last 15 years or so? What you are suggesting is likely to be compared to that.

You need to tell customers how you use their information, even more so when the GDPR comes into force next year. You would be wise to get that in writing, usually in a contract but at the same time if you were holding that information you are the data controller and you are liable if you do not comply with the relevant laws and regulations in the event of a data breach.

The other issue you have will be the sharing of information and making sure that any business or sole trader complies with data protection laws - again that would fall on your shoulders in the event of a data breach.

I don't doubt that most businesses these days will have a blacklist of sorts for customers who don't already pay up and/or are substantial debtors but it seems like your taking this one step further and could be a huge amount of work. It wouldn't be a simple case of setting up a website and thats it.

Still, what would the website offer that other businesses don't already offer? You can carry out a financial report on someone as to their means and any outstanding CCJs etc. but what it wouldn't do is determine whether or not someone is likely to pay you.

My gut instinct would probably say really bad idea, but in theory if you put in all the right legal provisions, safeguarding measures, security etc. then it could work - but more likely than not going to be a lot of hassle. Just think of the publicity!

[soletrader]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Thank you R0b !

Love the word Really in your last paragraph sorta says it all

That's why these sites are so good

[R0b]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Just my view that's all, I've heard similar proposals before and just think its a potential disaster waiting to happen. That's not to say it can't be done, but would be a lot of time and expense and certainly wouldn't suggest you go for it without legal advice.

Instead I would suggest you consider changing your business approach to the way you work and get paid. Whilst oral agreements can be legally binding, they are notoriously difficult to prove unless you are able to rely on other evidence such as witnesses. So as a business you should consider having written contracts in place. Even if you can't afford to pay a lawyer to draft a full blown contract you should at least consider having a written contract with the most essential contract terms such as: a description of services/goods, price, payment terms, jurisdiction for disputes, what you are/not liable for in the event of you breaching the contract. Obviously using only those clauses won't give you the best protection available but it will at least afford you some protection over an oral agreement. Sometimes if you're a member of a trade body or association you can get the benefit of using their template contracts and adapt it for your business so that could also be a cheaper alternative.

If your losing money because people aren't paying then you could consider whether taking a % of the cost upfront before you begin the works as a down payment or perhaps only in circumstances where the cost of works exceeds a certain amount e.g. if the cost of works is under £500 you might want to take a fly on it but if as you say cost of works is £6,000 you might want a down payment of 10%-15% or whatever the going rate is.

I can't tell what you should and shouldn't do as a business but at the same time you shouldn't expose yourself to unnecessary risks if you can avoid it.

[soletrader]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

You are 100% right R0b

Its not often that you come up against such people but when you do it is more than infuriating. Putting it mildly!

We do have an open agreement with customers but it is no more than a gentlemans agreement - We split as you describe payments but for argument's sake £6000 fencing £2500 payable on commencement of works balance on completion - but that deposit as it were, doesn't cover materials let alone labour for my employees

It is a vicious circle and we personally don't make anything until final payment - what makes me laugh is people will pay £100+ an hour for someone to fix a computer but ask for £100 for a full day grafting come rain or shine, they think it's unreasonable ?

I will look into trade body as you suggest that's a great idea.

Ideally, I would like it if people were just honest - it is such a shame that we have to take photos of everyjob before we start because you just can't trust people.

The way of the world - so depressing.

[slainte caragh]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

it would be illegal sadly.

I work in an industry where we keep records of conversations and bad payers etc, it is illegal to write anything derogatory about someone else on a public website (I.e never pays, waste of time)

We are not allowed to put that the customers were nasty/grumpy/rude etc (although we may put ABUSIVE) technically we cannot put if the customer did not understand unless we can back it up 100%.

all about the litigation and the DPA my lovely!

If you think about it, you can ask for all the records held about you and if they did that to a website and it said "she bitch from hell.. wouldn't pay blah blah blah..."

Not pretty

Callie <3

[soletrader]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Slainte

In this world there is never a level playing field we had a customer today that took the micky ended up after paying boys and skip the final profit £40 - but this was agreed to just to keep the peace - when you provide a continuous 5* service the likes of this customer comes along - they had no intention of paying the agreed amount - so what do you do - makes my blood boil

As R0b says get some proper terms and conditions and don't expect people to be honest

[R0b]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

I don't think it's illegal per se, as there's companies already out there who do a sort of service like this. For example National Hunter is a fraud prevention database where mortgage lenders flag people up if they suspect any dishonesty.. can affect your mortgage application if your on the list. They aren't a credit agency but do hold basic information about a person, probably a name, and address and a category they fall unde or any info from your application .

It's doable but you need the capital and keep very close to the line at all times. A public website is likely to be illegal as the world at large would be able to access it but if it is restricted to a closed group then as I've said before in theory it's possible.

Even if you had some sort of database, how would you address the issue if that blacklist person moves home? The incoming homeowner is going to be blacklisted through no fault of their own.

[soletrader]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Tick box maybe score. 1-5 of how good X customer is to work for on basis of refreshments

It would be so beneficial but... too fine a line to be crossing?

And let's say Mrs X who was an arse today writes a bad review I would have to respond so ever so politely saying what... She reneged on an agreed price for the job and left us with nothing... nope can't do that what would any other potential client think

Only think I can really do is forget for a couple of 3 days to call to have skip picked up total nonsense

[slainte caragh]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Tick box maybe score. 1-5 of how good X customer is to work for on basis of refreshments

Love it!!

"For a good old Irish strength cuppa, go to callies and she will make ye a irish treacle loaf too!"

I make Brickie's tea and if I've been baking I've been known to chuck a few buns on the tray too!! And ... AND I tell you where the lavvie is as well!!

Trucker's wife.. nuff said!

[soletrader]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Oh don't talk about lavvies - haha


Nice red cuppa tea for me too

1-5 was it milky
1-5 was it strong
1-5 DID THEY GIVE YOU AS MUCH CAKE AS YOU WERE EXPECTING

[slainte caragh]

Re: Question ?? Advice ??

Oh don't talk about lavvies - haha


Nice red cuppa tea for me too My Brother describes my tea as ?"Chestnut"

1-5 was it milky
1-5 was it strong
1-5 DID THEY GIVE YOU AS MUCH CAKE AS YOU WERE EXPECTING
I have been known to make a full (16 portion) treacle loaf and some messy bread and cut it up and send that out.. about 24 portions- 5 road workers...

I'm a terror for it, even my nieces and nephews call me and say "Auntie Callie- we're on the way. Put the kettle on... WE'VE HAD DINNER!!""