• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

    Hi there,

    The driver received 2 PPCs for parking in a residential car park that "requires a permit". Driver is a new resident and was awaiting a permit.

    I've now received the NTKs (No breach of POFA or anything) and am ready to get a POPLA code and appeal.

    I just wondered if somebody would be kind enough to inspect the signage -

    https://imgur.com/a/OBUQ0

    It's very small and the "£100" charge is not displayed prominently at all.

    There is signage at the entrance but it only says "No unauthorised parking" and there are no terms on this sign.

    I'd like to appeal on grounds of insufficient signage and primacy of contract (however, I'm not the "leaseholder" as I'm privately renting through a letting agent).

    Thanks for any advice you can give.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

    Sorry... I'm not sure why it's here - I tried to post this in the PPC forum

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

      I'll move it for you xx
      #staysafestayhome

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

        [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] [MENTION=101521]Gevans67[/MENTION] ... can you help??
        Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

        It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

        recte agens confido

        ~~~~~

        Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
        But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

        Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

          You may be just renting but your rental agreement/lease must say something about parking. This would take precedence over the signs etc. Get out your agreement out.

          As for those conditions. You were authorised to park. If they think they were not authorised then there is no offer of a parking contract. The sign on the parking bay says residents only. You were and you complied with that sign.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

            Do you have a written tenancy agreement?
            If so, what does it say about parking?
            Ditto 'quiet (or peaceful) enjoyment' of the premises?

            X-Posts with [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION]
            CAVEAT LECTOR

            This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
            Cohen, Herb


            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
            gets his brain a-going.
            Phelps, C. C.


            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
            The last words of John Sedgwick

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

              I have a written tenancy agreement with the letting agency/landlord. But I don't have access to the lease between the landlord and managing agent/landowner.

              There is literally only one mention of parking and it is this:


              "To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors. "


              That's it. Nothing else about parking anywhere in the contract.


              Interesting clause here under "Landlord Obligations" that may be relevant -


              "DECLARATION: The Landlord confirms that he is the sole or joint owner of the leasehold or freehold interest in the Property registered at the HM Land Registry and that all appropriate consents and permissions necessary for him to sign the Tenancy Agreement have been obtained. The Landlord also confirms that he is not aware of any works or development to any premises or buildings in the neighbouring area which may prevent the Tenant from his quiet enjoyment of the Property."

              Thanks for reading!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

                UKPC, so BPA member.

                Make initial complaint to UKPC, invoking primacy of tenancy agreement.
                This may help - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...rking.html?m=0
                CAVEAT LECTOR

                This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                Cohen, Herb


                There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                gets his brain a-going.
                Phelps, C. C.


                "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                The last words of John Sedgwick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

                  Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
                  UKPC, so BPA member.

                  Make initial complaint to UKPC, invoking primacy of tenancy agreement.
                  This may help - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...rking.html?m=0
                  Thank you!

                  I'm thinking of going with this -

                  ---

                  Dear Sir or Madam,

                  Ticket number:
                  Vehicle registration number:

                  I am writing to you as the keeper of the above vehicle. You issued me with a parking ticket on --- but I believe it was unfairly issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

                  • Primacy of Contract

                  My lease has primacy of contract over any restrictions you place on the land.

                  As my lease contains no clauses requiring a permit to park nor any clause requiring me to make payments to any third party who is a stranger to that lease, the issuing of the ticket is unlawful.

                  There is a large body of case law which establishes this. In Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011 it was found the managing agent could not reduce the amount of parking spaces available to residents. In Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E, on appeal it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to temporarily stop near the building entrance for loading/unloading.

                  In Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.

                  In Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] it was also found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.



                  • There was insufficient signage

                  The signage in the carpark is of a “forbidding” nature. It is limited to cars displaying a valid permit only and therefore the terms can not apply to cars without a permit. This means no contract can be formed and all tickets are issued illegally. I refer you to the following case law: PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016], Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] – In all three of these cases the signage was found to be forbidding and thus only a trespass had occurred and would be a matter for the landowner.

                  I’d also like to draw your attention to Link Parking v Mr L C9GF5875 [2016] where it was found that there was no entrance sign at a residential site and as a result the case was dismissed. Please see attached evidence (Photo1) showing a lack of signage at the entrance.

                  The signs also do not meet the minimum requirements in part 18 of the BPA code of practice. They were not clear and intelligible as required.

                  The BPA Code of Practice states under appendix B, entrance signage:
                  “The sign must be readable from far enough away so that drivers can take in all the essential text without needing to look more than 10 degrees away from the road ahead.”

                  For a contract to be formed, one of the many considerations is that there must be adequate signage on entering the car park and throughout the car park. I contend that there is not (again, please see attached evidence).

                  When with reference to the BCP Code of Practice, it actually states:
                  "There must be enough colour contrast between the text and its background, each of which should be a single solid colour. The best way to achieve this is to have black text on a white background, or white text on a black background. Combinations such as blue on yellow are not easy to read and may cause problems for drivers with impaired colour vision"

                  Your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

                  Furthermore, the prominent “Residents Only” signage (without any terms or conditions) is confusing. This signage is very clear and upon seeing these signs, as a resident, one would reasonably conclude they are permitted to park there.



                  Please ensure that all points above are responded to and if you are choosing to pursue me further I will require a POPLA code for each PCN that has been issued.

                  I also demand that you provide me with a copy of the authorisation you have for the --- site.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

                    Ok.

                    Going in 'hard' for the initial 'soft' appeal may nip it in the bud.

                    Go for it, see how they respond.
                    CAVEAT LECTOR

                    This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                    Cohen, Herb


                    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                    gets his brain a-going.
                    Phelps, C. C.


                    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                    The last words of John Sedgwick

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PCN received for not displaying permit - residential parking - UKPC

                      I'll let you know how it goes.

                      Thanks everyone for your help and advice!

                      Comment

                      View our Terms and Conditions

                      LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                      If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                      If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.
                      Working...
                      X