Ernest Wilson victim

[Runrabbit]

Hi,

In November 2015 i contacted EW as i was thinking about selling my business. I had no idea what it was worth or even how to go about selling it. Paul Williamson came out to see me and valued my business. I didn't proceed because a) i couldn't yet as my ex was not yet removed from the business b) i wanted to see if i could save myself paying the commission charge.

In December my ex was removed so in January i advertised the business for sale, told people and put an advert on an online company website. In February EW contacted me. I told them i had a couple of very interested people. They basically told me it was very unlikely that the sale would complete as the buyers were trying to get government grants. PW told me that he could come out and see me again.

He came out on the 3rd March and told myself and my wife that if either of the current people interested purchased it then they would not charge me any commission as long as i gave him the names. I told him the two people. He passed me some business particulars and asked me to sign. I told him i need to read it and he said that a)he had left me one when he came out in November and b) there was nothing but fees and legal jargon. He stood over me with a pen in my face. He assured me that the two people would not be included anyway. I stupidly signed it.

Over the next couple of months i heard nothing from EW. I had no interest from them. One of the interested parties told me they no longer wanted it, but the other one was still interested. In June after having heard nothing from EW i wrote to them asking them to take it off the market. I also told them that as id been told there was no fee due if not sold, i expected that to be the end of it. They wrote back saying it was tied in for 6 months. I decided it didn't matter as they hadn't done anything to sell it anyway.

The other person who had been interested from the start managed to get money and we started legal paperwork for them to purchase at the end of the june. It completed on 1st July.

In September we received a letter from EW with an invoice for £936. It was for their apparent advertising and marketing fees. I phoned them to query it and they said they now know its sold so therefore they're now sending an invoice.

Two days later an invoice fro £3600 came through. It was £3600 more than they told me i would get, and £600 more than their terms stated. Apparently if i failed to let them know it had completed within 28 days then they could invoice me more than the original commission charge.

I've complained to them, and they're lying about so much. Firstly they denied ever saying that they would waive the commission. Now they're saying they did say it, but that was in november (it was in March) and that when they came to see me in March, the two interested parties had already given back word. That simply is not true and i have text messages to prove that the one who gave back word did so after our second meeting. I have requested a copy of the terms of business i signed. I believe these were on the back of the business particulars. The first page doesn't say anything about being ToB.

They took my first letter as a formal complaint but now they're asking for information regarding the complaint (my letters have been very thorough and professional thanks to my brother).

Our last letter included two cheques. One for £936 which was for the advertising and marketing, but we stated we were not happy with the service they gave, but accept they did do some advertising. And the second chq was for £1250 as an offer of full and final settlement. They declined it and sent it back.

I don't know what to do anymore. Do i pay it and try to fight it back? or do i let them take me to court. When i see how many people they've done this too it makes me sick. I don't have that sort of money. I reduced the business down by £8000 to sell it (knowing that in the back of my mind if i sold to Andy then i wouldn't have the £2500 plus vat fee to pay). If i pay this money then i've sold the business for far too little. I don't have any money left from the sale either.

please help.

[Amethyst]

Re: Ernest Wilson victim

Example of EW terms attached - ( from 2011 though so just for reference )

Did you have anything in writing from Mr Williamson ( http://www.nfopp-regulation.co.uk/me...co_limited.pdf ) about the already interested buyers being excluded from commission ?

Also text wise from http://ernestwilsonclients.blogspot.co.uk/ although I don't know the date these originate from

Terms of Business
Appointment
1.0 By signing this contract you hereby appoint Ernest Wilson to sell your business and/or property, information regarding which is written on page 1 of this contract and which you have read and certify as true.
1.1 In consideration of services rendered and of making reasonable efforts to sell the said business and/or property you hereby agree to give us sole selling rights (see Definitions” below for a full explanation of the term “Sole Selling Rights”) during the period of this contract and to pay any other commission or advertising and marketing charges due under this agreement.
1.11 Ernest Wilson agree’s to cooperate with yourself and prospective Buyers to achieve a sale of the said business and/or property.
1.2 During the period of this contract you agree to cooperate fully with Ernest Wilson and all prospective Buyers so as to give us every opportunity to earn our commission.
1.3 Ernest Wilson will offer all applicants and prospective Buyers its full range of estate agency services including the valuation of their present property, a sales service, assistance with the arranging of mortgages and/or loans and assistance with the arrangement of insurance and you are made aware that Ernest Wilson will normally earn a fee from such applicants and/or prospective Buyers for such services. No charge will be made to you for any service offered by Ernest Wilson to any other person.
1.31 lf you do not wish Ernest Wilson to offer any of the services mentioned in 1.3 then you must sign in this box:
1.4 Ernest Wilson can accept no responsibility for any errors, omissions or misrepresentations in the particulars on page 1 of this contract which have been read and checked by you in full.
Length and Termination of Contract.
2.0 This contract shall be for a minimum period of 6 months during which time you will not be able to cancel the contract.
2.1 If after the minimum six months period of this contract you wish to cancel this agreement then you may do so only by giving twenty eight days’ notice in writing by Royal Mail Special Delivery to the address on page 1 of this contract and that Ernest Wilson will retain sole selling rights until the expiration of the notice period.
2.11 lf you exercise your right to cancel this agreement at any time after the minimum six months period then you agree that you will pay all advertising and marketing expenses in accordance with the terms of this contract.
2.2 Ernest Wilson may cancel this contract at any time after the initial six month period by writing to you by Royal Mail Special Delivery at the address overleaf (marked “Private Address”) giving you 28 days notice without affecting your liability for any charges and/or fees which may be due or which may become due to Ernest Wilson from you and you agree that you will pay within 14 days of issue any account issued by Ernest Wilson in respect of advertising and marketing expesnes in accordance with the terms of this agreement.
2.3 For the avoidance of doubt in the event that a sale shall be agreed but shall not complete then this contract shall continue in force until cancelled in accordance with clauses 2.0 to 2.2.
Charges, Costs & Expenses.
Sale of Shares in a Limited Company
3.0 ln the event that a sale of shares of a limited company is effected commission will be calculated in accordance with 3.01 and/or 3.02 below based upon the last advertised price of/the business and/or property prior to instruction of Solicitors to deal with such sale.
Sale of Business and/or Property or Letting of premises at a Price/Annual Rental of £60,000 or less.
3.01 Commission of two thousand pounds plus advertising and marketing plus V.A.T. will be charged on any sale at a price of forty thousand pounds or under (including the transfer of an existing lease or the sale of fixtures and/or fittings which for the purpose of this clause shall be deemed as a sale of property) or letting at an annual rental of forty thousand pounds or under. In respect of and sale letting between a price/annual rental of forty thousand pounds and sixty thousand pounds inclusive, commission will be charged at five per cent of the selling price/annual rental of the business and or property plus advertising and marketing plus V.A.T.
Sale of Business and/or Property or Letting of premises at a Price/Annual Rental greater than £60,000.
3.02 Commission of five per cent of the selling price of the said property and/or business plus V.A.T. will be charged on any sale at a price in excess of sixty thousand pounds or in the event that the premises are let and no business and/or property is sold and the annual rent exceeds sixty thousand pounds then five per cent of the annual rental plus Value Added Tax will be charged.
Advertising and Marketing Charges.
3.1 Advertising and marketing expenses will be charged at fifty pounds per newspaper insertion plus V.A.T. and Ernest Wilson business catalogue insertions at forty pounds per insertion plus V.A.T. the cost of erecting a ‘For Sale Board and Sold Slip’ will be Eighty Five pounds plus V.A.T. and for the cost of preparing photographs of the business and/or property a charge of seventy five pounds plus V.A.T. will be made plus a further ten pounds plus V.A.T. per fifty miniprint photographs ordered or printed by Ernest Wilson on your behalf.
Charges for Accompanied Viewings.
3.11 You also understand and fully agree that you shall be responsible to pay for all/any accompanied viewings made by Ernest Wilson at the rate of thirty pounds per viewing (subject to a maximum of £420 + V.A.T.) on top of all other advertising and commission charges.
Total Cost for Advertising and Marketing
3.2 By signing this contract you authorise Ernest Wilson to expend upto but no more than one hundred and forty pounds plus V.A.T. per month in respect of Newspaper and Catalogue insertions.
3.3 You are made aware that any charge made by Ernest Wilson for photographs and mini photographs shall not exceed four hundred and twenty five pounds plus V.A.T.
Authority to Advertise.
3.4 By signing this contract you hereby authorise Ernest Wilson to arrange Adverts, make an entry in their catalogue, take photographs, order and/or print mini photographs and/or erect a “For Sale” sign as they may see fit in an effort to sell the business and/or property.
Pre-payments
3.5 You also agree that any payment you may make to Ernest Wilson prior to receiving our final account shall be a part payment only on account.
Debt Recovery
3.6 You agree to pay all fees, costs and expenses in relation to recovery of all commissions, advertising and marketing expenses incurred by Ernest Wilson in effecting such recovery including but not limited to: tracing agency fees, solicitors and other legal fees.
Late Payment of Account
3.7 You agree to pay to Ernest Wilson interest in accordance with the “Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998” and the “Late Payment of Commercial Debts Regulations 2002”, (such interest to be calculated on a day to day basis).
Commission Payable
4.0 Commission (in addition to any advertising and marketing costs which may also be due in accordance with clause 3.0 to Clause 3.7 hereof) will be charged upon occurrence of one or more of the following events:-
4.01 The sale of the said business and/or property during the period of this agency whether or not Ernest Wilson was instrumental in effecting such sale, and even if you yourself were so instrumental;
4.02 The sale of the said business and/or property at any time to a Buyer/s who have been introduced to the to the Sellers or have taken or have been given particulars from/by Ernest Wilson’s during the period of these instructions whether or not Ernest Wilson’s were instrumental in effecting such introduction.
4.03 The signature during the period of these instructions by prospective Buyers of a written agreement to purchase the said business and/or property at the price set out by you on page 1 of this agreement or any other price you have approved whether or not you are prepared to sign such agreement yourself.
4.04 The finding of a ready willing and able Buyer during the period of these instructions at the price set out by you on page 1 of this agreement or any other price agreed by you whether or not you are prepared to proceed with such sale.
4.05 The beneficial transfer of property (whether real or intellectual) including but not limited to: the granting or assignment of a lease on the premises and/or the sale or transfer of fixtures and fittings and/or the shares of a Limited Company.
4.06 The sale of the said business and/or property at any time to a buyer who either we or you had negotiations with during the period of these instructions whether or not Ernest Wilson was instrumental in effecting such sale.
4.07 The sale of the said business and/or property time to a buyer/s where the instruction of a Solicitor/Licensed Conveyancer by the Seller to deal with such sale took place the period of these instructions.
4.08 The sale or transfer of the property in accordance with 4.01, 4.02, 4.03, 4.04, 4.05, 4.06 or 4.07 where the said property is owned either jointly or solely by any of your partners, a Limited Company of which you or any of your partners (whether business or personal) are either a Director, Officer or Shareholder even if you own the business and/or business assets yet have no interest in the property.
Deposits
5.0 By signing this contract you authorise Ernest Wilson to hold as Stakeholder all/any deposits paid to them in respect of your sale and you authorise them to withdraw their fees, expenses, charges and V.A.T. from any such deposits held.
5.1 In the event of existing trade licences for the said business not being transferred and/or granted to the Buyer or in the event of the Buyer not being accepted as a tenant by the Landlord, or in the event of any misrepresentation by you in the information contained on page 1 of this agreement you authorise Ernest Wilson to return to the Buyer any monetary deposit that may have been paid to them.
No Spoken Amendment
6.0 By signing this contract you confirm that no oral amendment to the terms of remuneration or any other term of this contract as set out on page 2, 3 and 4 of this agreement have been made or will be made or will be accepted by either party (except to any changes to the “Particulars and Details of Business/Property” specifically within the area edged red on page1 of this agreement).
6.1 Any amendment to this contract can only be made in writing by both parties. A request for an amendment made in writing by either yourself or Ernest Wilson shall not be deemed to have been accepted unless a written agreement to such request has been made by the other party.
Limited Companies and/or Limited Liability Partnerships
7.0 You understand that if you sign this contract as a Director, Officer or on behalf of a Limited Company or on behalf of a Limited Liability Partnership and that Limited Company or Partnership is unable to meet its commitments or enters into liquidation or in the case of a Limited Company enters into amalgamation (and the amalgamated company shall not settle the account made by Ernest Wilson in accordance with this agreement) or shall fall to settle the account within 28 days then you hereby give your irrevocable personal guarantee that you will settle Ernest Wilson’s account in full within 14 days of the account being issued and under this guarantee you agree to be bound by all the terms and conditions contained herein as if you had signed this contract as a private individual.
Important – Full Title Guarantee.
8.0 You confirm that there are no third party rights over the freehold/leasehold interest in the property described on page 1 of this contract and that if the property referred to is leasehold then you confirm that there is no breach of covenant which may result in forfeiture (termination) of the said lease and you do hereby sell any leasehold/freehold property with Full Title Guarantee.
8.1 You also confirm that you have been made aware of the meaning of the term “Full Title Guarantee” and you undertake to inform Ernest Wilson in writing by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery to the address on page 1 of this contract within 7 days if at any time during the period of these instructions if you are unable to sell the said freehold/leasehold interest in the property without Full Title Guarantee.
Credit References
9.0 We will make a search with a credit reference agency, which will keep a record of that search and will share that information with other businesses. We may also make enquiries about the principal directors with a credit reference agency and we will monitor and record information relating to your trade credit performance and such records will be made available to other organisations to assess applications for credit.
Money Laundering Regulations
10.0 Prior to commencing the marketing of your business we will attempt to verify your identity (and/or the identity of the individual on whose behalf you are acting), and we will charge you £30 to carry out this procedure. This process involves checking the details you supply against those held on a number of specific databases Experian – the credit reference agency – has access to, for example information from the Electoral Register and fraud prevention agencies. Scoring methods will be used in the verification process as this gives a more thorough check of the available data. A record of this process will be kept may be used to help other companies to verify your identity. We may also pass information to organisations involved in fraud prevention to protect ourselves and our customers from theft and fraud. If you supply false or inaccurate information and we suspect fraud, we will record this and share this information with other organisations.
DEFINITIONS
SOLE SELLING RIGHTS
You will be liable to pay remuneration to us, in addition to any other costs or charges agreed, in each of the following circumstances
if unconditional contracts for the sale of the property are exchanged in the period during which we have sole selling rights, even if the Buyer was not found by us but by another agent or by any other person, including yourself; or
if unconditional contracts for the sale of the property are exchanged after the expiry of the period during which we have sole selling rights but to a Buyer who was introduced to you during that period or with whom we had negotiations about the property during that period.
READY WILLING AND ABLE BUYER
A Buyer is a ‘ready, willing and able’ Buyer if he is prepared and is able to exchange unconditional contracts for the purchase of your property.
You will be liable to pay remuneration to us, in addition to any other costs or charges agreed, if such a Buyer is introduced by us in accordance with your instructions and this must be paid even if you subsequently withdraw and unconditional contracts for sale are not exchanged, irrespective of your reasons.
FURTHER RlGHTS TO COMMISSION
Under this agreement the term “remuneration” has the same meaning as “commission”.
The above definitions iof “sole selling rights” and “ready willing and able buyer” are set out in this agreement pursuant to regulation 5 of the Estate Agents (Provision of Information) Regulations 1991.
They define only some of the circumstances when you will be liable to pay commission to Ernest Wilson under this agreement.
There are other circumstances under this agreement whereby you are liable to pay commission to Ernest Wilson. All of the circumstances in which you are liable to pay commission, which incorporate the circumstances under which remuneration is due under the definitions of “sole selling rights” and “ready willing and able buyer”, are set out in clause 4 above and your attention is specifically drawn to that clause of this agreement.”
By Signing this contract you confirm that you understand the above terms, a copy of which you have received, have read and understood and fully approved by you are legally binding on you and you sign this contract in such knowledge. N.B. You should not sign this contract if you do not understand all the terms and conditions without taking prior legal advice from your Solicitor or Citizens Advice Bureau.

[Runrabbit]

Re: Ernest Wilson victim

i have the copies of their "contract" both the one i signed which didn't actually look like ToB and also the copy they left me, which is unsigned by them.

Regarding the two people, unfortunately not. I told him the names, and he said he would jot them down. My brother pointed out there is no where that the names could have been put down, or adjusted on their contract anyway.

I've also discovered that their glossy sales brochure is full of poop. It says on the front "a selection of recent businesses sold". When i have investigated today it turns out the most recent on in there August 2014, and the others date right back to April 2012. Hardly recent sales!!. It just shows they'll do anything to win prospective victims over!!.

[Happybunny]

Re: Ernest Wilson victim

It's SO aggravating that these scumbags have been doing this for years. It's their modus operandi. It's how they're millionaires without a conscience😡

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately there is little online to give us hope. I hate giving in but I'm fearful of them getting a charge on my property.

[EW Client]

Re: Ernest Wilson victim

Has EW issued a court claim against you? There's some useful info on defending a claim at the CEBTA website. I wouldn't worry too much about having a charge put on your property at this stage, just concentrate on putting a defence bundle together.

[Yorkieterrier2]

I really feel I need to warn small business owners... We owned a property which we ran a business from for 16 years, the business started failing and we decided to sell. We invited Ernest Wilson estate agents along and because of the professional approach and promises they made we signed up for 6 months... after 6 months (may)not one viewing and only communication was made when I contacted them, we cancelled the no win no fee contract we THOUGHT we had signed. We then received a bill for nearly £1900 for advertising.... We eventually sold in October to a private buyer that already has property along the same area... he saw our day glo advertising with husbands telephone number on... no he had clicked on the advert what ew sent him in the December 16: so we now have to pay £5200 for them doing nothing,, .. please read all small print we have fallen short because we TRUSTED these conmen,,, gutted

[Runrabbit]

Sorry I’ve only just got your email. I’ve replied.

[Amethyst]

I really feel I need to warn small business owners... We owned a property which we ran a business from for 16 years, the business started failing and we decided to sell. We invited Ernest Wilson estate agents along and because of the professional approach and promises they made we signed up for 6 months... after 6 months (may)not one viewing and only communication was made when I contacted them, we cancelled the no win no fee contract we THOUGHT we had signed. We then received a bill for nearly £1900 for advertising.... We eventually sold in October to a private buyer that already has property along the same area... he saw our day glo advertising with husbands telephone number on... no he had clicked on the advert what ew sent him in the December 16: so we now have to pay £5200 for them doing nothing,, .. please read all small print we have fallen short because we TRUSTED these conmen,,, gutted

Do you have a copy of that contract ?

Have they taken you to court for the commission and advertising amounts they believe they are due ?

[Runrabbit]

Amethyst they seem to be doing exactly what they did to me. I fought and won.

[Amethyst]

I know - your defence and witness statements etc would be useful for others

[Runrabbit]

It was my barrister that did it but basically it was proving they lied. Witness statements were from my wife, who was present at the meeting (2 against 1 straight away). Other witness statements included people who viewed the business including the buyer. And also witness statements from my father as I told him on the day about the conversation I had with EW.

[Amethyst]

Okay but do you have the legal arguments / defence used by your barrister ? breach of contract, non performance, misrep etc ?

[Yorkieterrier2]

But they have this proof that our buyer had clicked on there advertisement that they sent him off a mailing list... our buyer wrote and signed a statement for the ombudsmen saying he never contacted Ew regarding our property and can’t temember doing it but this clipping says he did.

[Yorkieterrier2]

No not been to court went to ombudsman he ruled in there favour, under rule 4.2 on contract, only got contract after they sent us this commission bill

[Amethyst]

Property ombudsman ?

What evidence do they have that he clicked on their advertisement ? IP address ? Screen notes of details request etc ? Or was it a general mail shot that happened to include your details ? etc.

Also do they have a date when this supposedly happen - you sold in October and EW say they'd sent the details the previous December - when had you signed up and when cancelled ?



for ref :-

4.0 Commission (in addition to any advertising and marketing costs which may also be due in accordance with clause 3.0 to Clause 3.7 hereof) will be charged upon occurrence of one or more of the following events:-
4.01 The sale of the said business and/or property during the period of this agency whether or not Ernest Wilson was instrumental in effecting such sale, and even if you yourself were so instrumental;
4.02 The sale of the said business and/or property at any time to a Buyer/s who have been introduced to the to the Sellers or have taken or have been given particulars from/by Ernest Wilson’s during the period of these instructions whether or not Ernest Wilson’s were instrumental in effecting such introduction.