Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

[Gnark1ll]

Hi all,

Well I only ahve a small problem compared to some of the people here, nevertheless its an annoying one for us employees..and im pretty sure an illegal practice!

Heres how it goes....I am employed on a 'Zero Hour' contract, have no complaints about this, as Im getting plenty of hours...however the company has a rule that they stop paying the employees past midnight....I have only worked 30 minutes past this cutoff point so far, but I am informed by people that have been there a while that it is possible (even quite likely) to end up working 2 or even 3 hours past midnight...all WITHOUT PAY!!

(I am in the Uk by the way)


Surely this is not allowed by law? I have already looked up as much employment law as I can find, and havent been able to find anything that covers this exactly, and can only really come to the conclusion that employees are entitled to be paid for hours that they do..no question...

Am I right in this? Is my employer, for whatever reason under paying us? (I suspect it has something to do with these hours falling under 'Night Work' and the different laws regarding this..though i cant say for sure...perhaps it has something to do with their payroll system not being capable of handling the passing of one day to another...just guesses!).

I have also asked my manager about this (I did so as soon as I heard of the practice), adn she could not say anything beyond 'thats just the way it is'. It is the same rule for her too....

The company is a huge multinational, and I am luckily very happy with the job other than this, but its a question that is really nagging me...as one of these days I may have to play the hardball and simply leave at Midnight, whether the job is done or not (people have already done this ,so I have been told...leaving the remaining team in the lurch..though I cant say I blame them at all!),

I may have to do this because I am NOT in the habit of giving my labour for free to a multi billion dollar company! As much as I like the job.


Does anyone know where myself and my fellow employees stand on this issue?

Thanks so much!

oh and in addition....this practice IS NOT contained in the 'contract' (such as it is, being zero hour...it doesnt contain much!).....and it seems an utterly unfair practice, whatever the reasons behind it.

What do you think?

[teaboy2]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Your entitled to be paid for every hour you work - Same for every 0.25 and 0.50 hours you work.

Its is unlawful for an employer to withhold wages for hours worked under section 13 of the employment rights act 1996.

Question is have you actually worked out what hours you have worked and what hours you were paid for that same week, where you have worked past midnight, to see if you have been paid for those hours or not?

Can you also tell us what industry your working in, as that may be a factor?

[Gnark1ll]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Hi, thanks for the reply,

Yes I have worked out the hours (I track my hours using an App on my phone) and though I only did approx2.5 hours past midnight in my first month in the job (15 to 20 minutes here and there), I am definitely short those hours on my pay slip (which is totally itemised).

One thing I have been made aware of..because I have been making a bit of noise over this (not in a rude way but I really must have clarification over this practice as it really seems so illegal)...is that those staff that work past 11pm (so called 'lates')...though they wont get paid past midnight..DO get paid UNTIL midnight, even if they finish before (i.e Work complete by 23.20 hrs..they will be paid up until midnight)...

This never happens however, and is a virtually impossible task that long standing employees at the place have rarely if ever achieved in 6 to 10 years working there!

I am in the Food/Restaurant industry.

Thanks!

[teaboy2]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Hi, thanks for the reply,

Yes I have worked out the hours (I track my hours using an App on my phone) and though I only did approx2.5 hours past midnight in my first month in the job (15 to 20 minutes here and there), I am definitely short those hours on my pay slip (which is totally itemised).

One thing I have been made aware of..because I have been making a bit of noise over this (not in a rude way but I really must have clarification over this practice as it really seems so illegal)...is that those staff that work past 11pm (so called 'lates')...though they wont get paid past midnight..DO get paid UNTIL midnight, even if they finish before (i.e Work complete by 23.20 hrs..they will be paid up until midnight)...

This never happens however, and is a virtually impossible task that long standing employees at the place have rarely if ever achieved in 6 to 10 years working there!

I am in the Food/Restaurant industry.

Thanks!

Are you and rest of staff mostly on minimum wage?

[Gnark1ll]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Yes most on Minimum wage, zero hours, apart from the long serving people and the shift managers (and actual manager ofc)

[teaboy2]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Yes most on Minimum wage, zero hours, apart from the long serving people and the shift managers (and actual manager ofc)

Then tell the employer that by not paying you for time you work after midnight, the employer is in fact in breach of national minimum wage laws. Because when you divide the total paid by total hours work (including hours after midnight) it works out at less than 6.50 (minimum wage per hour if over 21) - For example you work 10 hours shift and your total pay is £65 before tax and NI deductions - 65 / 10 = 6.50. But say you worked an extra hour after midnight bringing total hours to 11 but still only paid 65 - 65 / 11 = 5.909 (£5.91) 59 pence below minimum wage.

So tell the employer, if they do not back pay all employees effected by their no pay for hours after midnight, you will report them to HMRC for not paying the national minium wage - Remind them that it is, in fact, a criminal offence to pay less than the national minimum wage and they can be fined heavily as well as ordered to remunerate employees all the hours they have not been paid for!

[Gnark1ll]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Then it's as I suspected, but worded much more effectively.

I will put it to my immediate manager later on, and see what she thinks (apart form me being an agitiator, even though I really am not!).

I will point out that the coompany is potentially in a lot of trouble, if they do come under close scrutiny later on in the year (which is looking very likely from what I read).

Thanks ever so much for that!

[teaboy2]

Re: Not Paid after Midnight in new job...whether we are finshed or not!

Then it's as I suspected, but worded much more effectively.

I will put it to my immediate manager later on, and see what she thinks (apart form me being an agitiator, even though I really am not!).

I will point out that the coompany is potentially in a lot of trouble, if they do come under close scrutiny later on in the year (which is looking very likely from what I read).

Thanks ever so much for that!

Your welcome. And don't worry about the company taking any action against you, if they did, they would find themselves fighting off a tribunal claim too, which they'd have no chance of winning considering the your asserting your right to national minimum wage!

The HMRC will likely investigate them once reported and the HMRC will ensure all monies are back dated and all unpaid tax and NI is paid along with it. So the company would not only face being prosecuted and fined up to £5,000 for each instance of failing to pay national minimum wage, but also a bill in back dated wages, tax and NI of potentially thousands or tens of thousands, depending on how long this has been going on!