Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

[Phill]

Hi
I'm writing this because my dad is representing himself in less than 7 weeks and we have asked his former employer to disclose a number of documents which they have admitted is of importance, this was asked for 9 weeks ago,it then went on and on blah blah blah (can fill in the blah blah gaps if needed)last week we applied to the judge for an order to strike the case out on grounds of Non compliance of case management orders and non disclosure of documents.the judge sent a copy to them titled REQUEST FOR ORDER and enclosed a copy of what we had asked the judge to do,and he added they may object to the application by writing to the tribunal by tomorrow copying us in,they still have not responded,is this normal,what action is the judge likely to take if any,sorry if it doesn't read exactly as it should as I'm sure you can all tell this is not my area of excellence.
Any help,advice or any input at all would begreatfully received as my dads health is suffering because of the stree. Thanks. Phill x

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

It is highly unlikely that the tribunal will strike a case out - employers frequently fail to meet deadlines, and it is considered part of the rigmarole of tribunals. The judge is likely to be annoyed, and may tell them off, but probably nothing more than that unless they continue to ignore all correspondence from the court. It is even possible for a case to be struck out and then reinstated if the respondant objects late! The reason for this is because ruling on a case without hearing both parties, no matter why that has happened, is contrary to the principles of justice, and makes the ruling more likely to be appealed. Appeals waste time amd money for everyone, so trubunals are loathe to do anything that will cause one if it can be avoided.

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Wow Eloise thanks for the response they are building there whole defence on something that dosent exist,waisting everyone's time in the process.if the court has timetables and rules that people are allowed to ignore to makes me concerned for the hearing its self.theres no way we can make a faire and honest case if they don't disclose there 1 main piece of evidence they supposedly used to sack my dad. X

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

If the court has ordered the disclosure they WILL have to disclose it - they just won't do it to deadline. Gameplaying of this sort is not uncommon, and it is pointless because it just annoys the judges and there is no benefit to holding on to documents because they have to disclose! The issue here is that the rules of tribunals are designed for non-lawyers. The tribunal system was set up to be accessible to ordinary people, whether claimants or employers. In real life there are always really good reasons why people don't quite do things, or don't do things correctly, and penalising them for this would hit both sides equally and adversely. So there are some "rules" that are hard and fast because the law sets them, and there are others which are, if you like "the judges discretion". Judges have tried, over decades, to facilitate fairness in the system by being somewhat more lenient than a judge in, say, a criminal case, would be - to take account of the "lay perspective" and lack of experience / knowledge people may have. But having done so, you cannot then wind back the clock when you want to and say that you won't allow X this, but Y was. You are still seven weeks away from tribunal. That may not seem long but it is an absolute age yet! A great deal could happen before that date - including a settlement if you think the case is so good.

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Thanks that has settled my mind some what, the case is is so clear they would be stupid to let it go to court,they would also in my mind be better offering dad a settlement because am i right to assume if it gets struck out or they loose in court they canot defend or object to the remedy statment. the court has our remedy statement so does the former employer so they know the financial figures involved,
On a personal note thanks for taking the time to reply Eloise it really is taking its toll on dad so I appreciate the advice/help x

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

If they lose it does not mean they can't object to the remedy. no!

In my experience - good case or bad - many employers do settle (although obviously not all) simply because it is cheaper than their legal bills, but some will literallu leave it until the last moment. But I always warn people to be ruthlessly objective about their "great case" and "what they will get". I have seen too many "great cases" go down in flames because people fail to understand the law or how tribunals work. And tribunals never give what people think they do! Not trying to put an dampener on your enthusiasm - just a friendly warning that things are not always what they seem or what people think. On another site I used to post on someone spent three years fighting his case it was so great. He lost. This was because the tribunal was "perverse / didn't understand his case / on the employers side", which translated as, he didn't understand the law and what tribunals are allowed to do, even though he had been told several times to settle!

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Thanks Eloise I appreciate your honesty should learn more by this time tomorrow as to what they are going to do,I will update as things progress,huge thanks again for your time keep up the good fight x

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Well they havnt responded any ideas what judge may now do ? Or suggestions what we should do ?

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

You ask for a default judgement and wait... Nothing else you can do as this is in the hands of the tribunal.

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

They replied this morning I will update you on what happened later thanks x

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

They responded saying we had received everything we have asked for, we replied attaching copies of earlier requests to show how they knew this not to be true,it feels they are just trying to string it out as long as possible,they didn't reply by the order time limit how will this be viewed by judge, and is he going to be aware of there delaying actions.?

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

I am afraid that I can only repeat what I told you. This is not untypical. You inform the tribunal what documents have not been disclosed. Annoying the judge is never a good idea. But it is unlikely that there will be any sanctions applied.

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Thank you Eloise that's what I thought,well I hope you have a nice long weekend I will update on here if/when anything happens x

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

well its all still going on, only 4 weeks till court date so while Dad and I have been going through all the disclosures we eventually got the question came up, Dad is representing himself so when there solicitor has cross examined him how does Dad then re,cross examine himself??. I hope that makes sense and some body can answer it for me. thanks xx

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

He is allowed to add statements to clarify points. And judges usually question things to clarify matters themselves.