Mbna - arrow global.

**FlamingParrot** · 29th April 2013, 08:55:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Hi and welcome

First of all, don't contact anyone over the telephone. Can you post up the letter Restons sent you (remove all personal details, we just need to see the wording of the letter itself rather than their references, etc.). It's important to see it to work out what the best response is.

Restons are some of the most aggressive solicitors around and often issue court papers so you need to respond, however, before you do, we need to work out whether what they've sent is a letter of claim (letter before action or LBA) or something more informal.

From the above, it sounds like you have a pre-2007 MBNA account sold to Arrow Global (Arrow bought lots of MBNA accounts over the past year or so) and they were using Wescot and Frederickson to chase you, but the account is owned by Arrow, in which case you should address the CCA request to Arrow. Don't know where you got the CCA request template letter but I would certainly leave out the bit about letting this matter be decided by the court, you don't want to invite them to issue court papers! :scared:

Have you got a Notice of Assignment to Arrow? Did MBNA issue a DN when you stopped paying? If so, have you got it? Could you post it up? What's the outstanding balance? Also you say it was an MBNA loan, I was under the impression they only managed credit cards. :noidea:

Lots of questions, but we need to know where you stand with this before sorting out an appropriate response to Restons.

**FlamingParrot** · 29th April 2013, 09:05:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Originally posted by AndrewJ View Post

In February 2011 I made an offer to Wescott Credit Services to settle this loan but they wrote back to say they were no-longer dealing with the account and would forward my offer to Arrow Global who I assume had bought the debt.

I then heard nothing until April 2011 when I received a letter from Fredrickson International demanding the full amount. I then forwarded my previous offer and again heard nothing from them.

In September 2012 Drydens Fairfax wrote to me again asking for the full amount. After many letters including supplying me income/outgoings they rejected my offer but made a counter offer for 75% of the debt for a one off payment dated 9th November.

I have heard nothing since.

Too many threat-monkeys chasing this account :ohwell: but it sounds like Arrow are the owners, Drydens Fairfax are a firm of solicitors and the other two are DCAs. None of them seem to be involved anymore so let's forget about them for now. Send a CCA request to Arrow as follows, with a £1 PO, by recorded delivery. Sign using a computer font rather than your real signature to be on the safe side. They have 14 days to comply. It's unlikely they will be able to do so within the 14 days because debt purchasers buy debts in bulk without any paperwork, so they'll have to go back to MBNA to get a copy, which they can't always find (MBNA never found my agreement :dance

. The account will be unenforceable until such time they send something compliant.

Dear Sirs

Account No: xyz

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).
If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).
The OFT has stipulated that 'sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements'. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

a copy of their agreement
copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
get a court judgment against the debtor

In line with the above, please find attached my £1 payment, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days).

Yours faithfully,

Send a copy of this to Restons so they know you are requesting it from Arrow. :thumb:

**AndrewJ** · 29th April 2013, 12:38:PM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Originally posted by FlamingParrot View Post

Too many threat-monkeys chasing this account :ohwell: but it sounds like Arrow are the owners, Drydens Fairfax are a firm of solicitors and the other two are DCAs. None of them seem to be involved anymore so let's forget about them for now. Send a CCA request to Arrow as follows, with a £1 PO, by recorded delivery. Sign using a computer font rather than your real signature to be on the safe side. They have 14 days to comply. It's unlikely they will be able to do so within the 14 days because debt purchasers buy debts in bulk without any paperwork, so they'll have to go back to MBNA to get a copy, which they can't always find (MBNA never found my agreement :dance

. The account will be unenforceable until such time they send something compliant.
Send a copy of this to Restons so they know you are requesting it from Arrow. :thumb:

Thanks for the advice, to answer your questions -

I do-not have a notice of assignment from MBNA to Arrow. I'm not saying I've never had one but it has been a while and 2 house moves since this started.

The outstanding balance is - £5610.25

The content of the Restons letter is -

Dear Sir,

We are trying to contact the above named person regarding a personal matter and we have been provided with your address as a possible address for our subject/customer.

If you are not the person named above, please contact our office on telephone - 01925 661699

If however you are not the person named above, please accept our apologies for this contact. If you are able to supply us with information on where our subject may now reside, we would welcome contact from you so that we may update our records appropriately.

Yours faithfully,

Restons Solicitors Limited.

Sorry, what is a DN?

**AndrewJ** · 29th April 2013, 12:49:PM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

As you can see from the content of the Restons letter, it would be difficult to mention why I believe they are writing. Shall I simply acknowledge the letter and wait for another?

I have already sent the CCA request to Arrow.

**FlamingParrot** · 29th April 2013, 13:21:PM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Originally posted by AndrewJ View Post

Thanks for the advice, to answer your questions -

I do-not have a notice of assignment from MBNA to Arrow. I'm not saying I've never had one but it has been a while and 2 house moves since this started.

The outstanding balance is - £5610.25

The content of the Restons letter is -

Dear Sir,

We are trying to contact the above named person regarding a personal matter and we have been provided with your address as a possible address for our subject/customer.

If you are not the person named above, please contact our office on telephone - 01925 661699

If however you are not the person named above, please accept our apologies for this contact. If you are able to supply us with information on where our subject may now reside, we would welcome contact from you so that we may update our records appropriately.

Yours faithfully,

Restons Solicitors Limited.

Originally posted by AndrewJ View Post

As you can see from the content of the Restons letter, it would be difficult to mention why I believe they are writing. Shall I simply acknowledge the letter and wait for another?

It looks like they are on a fishing expedition, I would wait for them to write with something more specific before responding with anything. Before starting legal action, creditors and their solicitors are supposed to send a letter before action or letter of claim, however, the above doesn't constitute one by any stretch of the imagination! :nono

1st Crud started writing to me in exactly the same way, I ignored them and their letters became more and more specific.

Originally posted by AndrewJ View Post

I have already sent the CCA request to Arrow.

WELL DONE! :yo:

By sending it, you are covering yourself against legal proceedings, because they can't enforce as long as they haven't complied with your s.78 request (or s.77 if it was a loan instead of a credit card).

Do keep an eye on the post Arrow and Restons are both sneaky. Post up as soon as you get anything from anyone regarding this account.

Originally posted by AndrewJ View Post

Sorry, what is a DN?

A Default Notice, which you should have received a few months after breaking your contractual payments.

**AndrewJ** · 29th April 2013, 14:13:PM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Just a thought, as they have not complied with my previous CCA request via Drydens Fairfax and assuming they do-not comply to the one I've just posted. How do I put this to bed once and for all?

**FlamingParrot** · 29th April 2013, 14:37:PM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

It is possible that Dryden Fairfax never passed on the request to Arrow, they were solicitors, probably hired by Arrow just to scare you into paying. Arrow own the debt and they have the obligation to obtain the paperwork from MBNA. If they don't, they cannot enforce this account.

If you hear from Restons, Arrow, or any of their agents, you'd have to refer them to your recent CCA request and the fact that you are awaiting their response. The main thing is to be covered in case someone gets ideas and considers legal action, there have been quite a few claims issued by Arrow for MBNA accounts so it pays to be on your toes! :thumb:

**AndrewJ** · 2nd May 2013, 11:22:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Hi,

I've received a letter dated 30th April (the same day my CCA request was received by Arrow) from a company called Callcredit.

Here's the content -

Callcredit is one of the UK's three credit reference agencies and provide lenders, creditors and consumers with credit reports.

We are working with Arrow Global to ensure that their customers understand their credit reports and options available to help manage their financial situation. Arrow Global has asked us to contact you on their behalf, as you are one of Arrow Global Ltd. Arrow Global inform us they acquired this debt from MBNA. The presence of this default on your credit file may have an adverse effect on your credit score.

We are committed to helping consumers understand their credit reports and the factors that positively and negatively affect their credit rating - a key factor in how lenders decide to accept or decline a customer for a loan or credit card product. If you want help with managing your debt, or would like to see your credit report, we've include some details below that may be of use to you:

StepChange Debt Charity offers free, confidential and independent debt advice over the phone for people .......

Noddle, which is part of the Callcredit Information Group, offers you free for life access to your credit report......

We hope that this information will be of help to you.

Any thought?

**FlamingParrot** · 2nd May 2013, 11:32:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Arrow obviously passed on your details to Callcredit, which is a credit reference agency. Even if you understand your credit report, it won't help you in this case - the default will stay on for 6 years so not much point bothering with them.

That letter is totally irrelevant to your CCA request or your ongoing dispute with Arrow/MBNA, you can safely file away.

:thumb:

**AndrewJ** · 13th May 2013, 11:01:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Hi,

I received a another letter from Restons on Saturday dated 10th May. As predicted this is the letter demanding payment for the outstanding debt purchased by Arrow Global from MBNA.

Here's the content -

We are instructed by Arrow Global Limited to claim immediate payment from you of the outstanding balance on your above account, being £5,609.25, plus interest as appropriate.

We must ask you to pay the sum of £5,610.25 direct to this office by Friday, May 24th, 2013 failing which we have strict instructions to issue a County Court Summons for the full balance due plus fees and costs.
We are instructed to seek a judgment against you which will be registered by the court, if obtained. This is likely to adversely affect your credit record making it difficult for you to obtain credit in the future.

Our client may be prepared to accept payment by instalments. If you wish to consider this option please complete the enclosed questionnaire and return it to this office by Friday, May 24th, 2013. We may telephone you on any number available to us to discuss. Alternatively you may wish to telephone us on the above DIRECT line by Friday, May 24, 2013. All future correspondence/payments should be sent to this office clearly marked with your name and our above reference. Receipts will not be given unless specifically requested. Please also send a stamped addressed envelope.

Further our Client has asked us to draw your attention an opportunity for you to clear the account at a specially discounted settlement figure which could represent a substantial saving for you. If you are interested you should call the above direct line.

Finally, if you are not already doing so, we would recommend you seek your own independent advice from a solicitor or for example the Citizens Advice Bureau or other non-charging organisations.

My CCA advice was signed for at Arrow Global on the 30th Arpil, am I right in saying they have until 20th May to reply?

Can you please advise how to reply to Restons?

Thank you.

**FlamingParrot** · 13th May 2013, 11:12:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

You need to treat that as a letter of claim and reply accordingly, Restons are not to be triffled with! I'll be back soon with a reply. :grin:

**FlamingParrot** · 13th May 2013, 11:36:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

You need to treat that as a letter of claim and respond accordingly, Restons are trigger-happy.

Dear Sirs

Re your letter dated 10th May 2013

Thank you for your letter, the contents of which i have noted.

Since your letter clearly refers to the threat of litigation, i am treating it as a formal letter of claim albeit an entirely defective one.

I refer you to the Civil Procedure Rules pre action protocol practice direction, in particular Annex A and Annex B, you will note your letter fails to comply with either of the aforesaid Annexes.

Since you are a firm of solicitors, i cannot excuse such failures and place you on notice that any litigation on the back of this letter will result in an immediate application to the Court requesting the matter stayed with costs against you and your client on the indemnity basis. I refer you to Para 4.6 of the Practice Direction which explains the consequences of non compliance with the Pre-action protocol.

Turning to the subject matter of your letter, this matter is subject of a dispute which has been raised with your clients representatives and therefore it would be appropriate before you threaten litigation for your clients client to actively deal with the issues which i have raised.

The main crux of my dispute is .................................................. ......

Accordingly and in accordance with the CPR pre action protocol practice direction i look forward to your reply setting out correctly the nature of your clients claim and answering my dispute as stated above.

Regards

Where the 'crux' of your dispute would be their non-compliance with your CCA requests, your first one from November 2012 wasn't replied to, which is why you sent a new one on 30th April 2013. They are right on the deadline on this one, but the fact your previous request hasn't been complied with in 6 months should be sufficient grounds for dispute. You should also mention any other relevant issues, such as the fact you never received a Notice of Assignment (as you say on post 4 above).

Send this letter by Recorded Delivery.

**FlamingParrot** · 13th May 2013, 11:58:AM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

For reference, this is the pre-action protocol referred to above: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...action_conduct

ANNEX A

Guidance on pre-action procedure where no pre-action protocol or other formal pre-action procedure applies

1. General

1.1 This Annex sets out detailed guidance on a pre-action procedure that is likely to satisfy the court in most circumstances where no pre-action protocol or other formal pre-action procedure applies. It is intended as a guide for parties, particularly those without legal representation, in straightforward claims that are likely to be disputed. It is not intended to apply to debt claims where it is not disputed that the money is owed and where the claimant follows a statutory or other formal pre-action procedure.

2. Claimant’s letter before claim

2.1

The claimant’s letter should give concise details about the matter. This should enable the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include –

(1) the claimant’s full name and address;

(2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable);

(3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based;

(4) what the claimant wants from the defendant;

(5) if financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated; and

(6) details of any funding arrangement (within the meaning of rule 43.2(1)(k) of the CPR) that has been entered into by the claimant.

2.2

The letter should also –

(1) list the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely;

(2) set out the form of ADR (if any) that the claimant considers the most suitable and invite the defendant to agree to this;

(3) state the date by which the claimant considers it reasonable for a full response to be provided by the defendant; and

(4) identify and ask for copies of any relevant documents not in the claimant's possession and which the claimant wishes to see.

2.3

Unless the defendant is known to be legally represented the letter should –

(1) refer the defendant to this Practice Direction and in particular draw attention to paragraph 4 concerning the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with the Practice Direction; and

(2) inform the defendant that ignoring the letter before claim may lead to the claimant starting proceedings and may increase the defendant's liability for costs.

ANNEX B

Information to be provided in a debt claim where the claimant is a business and the defendant is an individual

1.

Where paragraph 7.4 of the Practice Direction applies the claimant should –

(1) provide details of how the money can be paid (for example the method of payment and the address to which it can be sent);

(2) state that the defendant can contact the claimant to discuss possible repayment options, and provide the relevant contact details; and

(3) inform the defendant that free independent advice and assistance can be obtained from organisations including those listed in the table below.

National Debtline	Tricorn House	FREEPHONE 0808 808 4000	www.nationaldebtline.co.uk
51-53 Hagley Road
Edgbaston
Birmingham
B16 8TP
Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS)		FREEPHONE 0800 138 1111	www.cccs.co.uk
Citizens Advice	Check your local Yellow Pages or Thomson local directory for address and telephone numbers		www.citizensadvice.org.uk
Community Legal Advice (formerly Community Legal Services Direct)		0845 345 4345	www.clsdirect.org.uk

2.

The information set out in paragraph 1 of this Annex may be provided at any time between the claimant first intimating the possibility of court proceedings and the claimant’s letter before claim.

3.

Where the defendant is unable to provide a full response within the time specified in the letter before claim because the defendant intends to seek debt advice then the written acknowledgment should state –

(1) that the defendant is seeking debt advice;

(2) who the defendant is seeking advice from; and

(3) when the defendant expects to have received that advice and be in a position to provide a full response.

4.

A claimant should allow a reasonable period of time of up to 14 days for a defendant to obtain debt advice.

5.

But the claimant need not allow the defendant time to seek debt advice if the claimant knows that –

(1) the defendant has already received relevant debt advice and the defendant's circumstances have not significantly changed; or

(2) the defendant has previously asked for time to seek debt advice but has not done so.

Clearly the letter sent by Restons misses most of the points above but that's not uncommon. :ohwell:

**AndrewJ** · 13th May 2013, 13:44:PM

Re: Mbna - arrow global.

Originally posted by FlamingParrot View Post

For reference, this is the pre-action protocol referred to above: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...action_conduct

Clearly the letter sent by Restons misses most of the points above but that's not uncommon. :ohwell:

Thank you for the advice, I will send the letter straight away.

Just one thought, ultimately I would like to resolve this matter. Once we have passed the deadline for the CCA is it worth making an offer to settle? I was thinking circa £1,000?

Again, thank you so much for your advice.

Mbna - arrow global.

Mbna - arrow global.

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