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Wages Over Payment Query

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  • Wages Over Payment Query

    I had part of my wages with held last week without any explanation.

    After complaining to my line manager he finally managed to get head of HR to phone me yesterday.

    Apparently they have discovered that my overtime pay has been incorrect for the last 18mths (the time I have been in the job) and therefore they will now calculate the over payment and get back to me. She did concede that some of the money held back was wrongly done and will be sending me a cheque to cover it but gave no date by which this would be done.

    Can someone please tell me if they can go right back 18mths?
    The difference is quite a lot and there will now be a large debt for me

    thanks

  • #2
    Re: Wages Over Payment Query

    Check your contract, if in there it says they can you have no grounds to stop them. this is where the law stands on this point.

    An employer shall not make a deduction from wages of a worker employed by him unless—
    (a) the deduction is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a statutory provision or a relevant provision of the worker’s contract, or
    (b) the worker has previously signified in writing his agreement or consent to the making of the deduction.

    To me it reads that you have to give them permission. If by them taking your wages it would leave you in financial hardship say NO.
    I would though advise that you make a gesture of say 5% of the debt to be recovered each month untill paid.
    Borrow money from a pessimist -- they don't expect it back.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Wages Over Payment Query

      Thanks

      I don't have a copy of my contract!

      My time sheets have always been signed off without any query although at the beginning it was difficult to get sorted as it was a new post and finance were unsure how the pay was to be done.

      Do they not have to accept some responsibility in that this should of been picked up sooner?

      Also where would I stand if I left would any payment plan still stand or would they then demand the whole lot?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Wages Over Payment Query

        There are timelimits of how far back they can claim overpayments from.

        Limits on amount and time of deductions
        (1) Where (in accordance with section 13) the employer of a worker in retail employment makes, on account of one or more cash shortages or stock deficiencies, a deduction or deductions from wages payable to the worker on a pay day, the amount or aggregate amount of the deduction or deductions shall not exceed one-tenth of the gross amount of the wages payable to the worker on that day.

        In subsection (2) “the relevant period” means the period of twelve months beginning with the date when the employer established the existence of the shortage or deficiency or (if earlier) the date when he ought reasonably to have done so

        So they can only claim the overpayment dating back 12 months. If you were to leave the job they can still demand the 12 months. So as in my other post use the law and make an offer of 5% of the debt per month until it is cleared.
        Borrow money from a pessimist -- they don't expect it back.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Wages Over Payment Query

          Thanks

          Where did you find that? Was on the ACAS site? I have been looking on there because I also want to know my rights a retained member of staff but this does not seem to be covered.

          thanks again

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wages Over Payment Query

            I found it on the Employments rights Act 1996.

            http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996..._19960018_en_1
            Borrow money from a pessimist -- they don't expect it back.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wages Over Payment Query

              thanks your a star!
              ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
              That appears to be for retail workers...............which I'm not.
              Last edited by grimbell; 1st October 2008, 16:43:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                google is a wonderful thing!

                I have found this statement on 2 legal sites and feel much better now

                In order to show that an overpayment is not recoverable, then the employee must demonstrate three things. Firstly, it must be shown that the overpayment was the fault of the company and not the employee. Secondly, it must have been reasonable for the employee not to know that they were being overpaid. Thirdly, the employee must have acted to their disadvantage or the assumption that the payment of salary was correct (for example by spending the money!). The most common difficulty for employees is the second condition since it is often obvious when an overpayment has occurred. It is not acceptable for an employee to assume that they have received a substantial increase in pay unless there is some reason to believe that this is the case.

                Will just wait to see what comes from HR and then hit them with the above.

                My overtime has been paid at the same rate since I started the job so I had no reason to doubt it. It is they who says that this is wrong 18mths on so their mistake. I have spent it each month in good faith (on bills) so I think that covers the three points. (hopefully)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                  Hi

                  I would also consider telephoning ACAS for their thoughts. They have a free telephone advice service for employees.

                  Kind regards


                  Birdie

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                    Hi All

                    Well I eventually got a figure for the overpayment early Dec. It had been held up because HR sent Payroll 2 sets of figures and it then took another couple of weeks to clarify which set was to be used!

                    The total overpayment comes to 7.5k, 2k of which is Tax,NI and pension. They want me to payback 5.5k (near enough).

                    I spoke to ACAS and they think that because of the issues at the beginning and payroll giving me an example of how to fill out my timesheet this is in my favour.

                    I have an appointment with an employment specialist at CAB tomorrow.

                    Payroll want £50 per month for the next 8 years!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                      You definitley need a specialist with that amount of money involved!

                      I would want to know how they managed to over pay you for so long and why they dont have practices in place to prevent this happening!

                      Also it was only one years worth they could claim back wasn't it?
                      Dragging myself and my family back into the light with the help of Beagles.

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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                        The problem has occurred (I think) because this was a newly created job and they had never done anything like this before.

                        I feel HR are the ones who failed to make everything clear especially how to pay overtime so they need to take some responsibility.

                        Since Sept I have only been working my basic and the money is so poor I am now struggling but until this is sorted I can't do a lot else.

                        The person I am seeing tomorrow is the best apparently and has made mincemeat of a few barristers in court so i will report back then.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                          Have seen a specialist and basically he said it stinks, is unfair but there is not a lot I can do.

                          His advice was to raise a grievance which should mean a meeting should be held with HR and just appeal to their better nature in the hope they write it off.

                          Well considering we are talking about the NHS I don't hold out much hope.

                          So I now start the New Year with another bloody great debt added to the rest.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                            I am curiouis to know what advice the 'specialist' gave you?

                            basically it is their erro and you have a defence in law of change of position. ie you spent moenty they paid with no real reason to believe you were not entitled to it. this is basically what you spelt out in your earlier email.

                            In addition to this as HOD psoted unless you give them permission in writing to remove something they cannot do that.

                            Oh and they cannot unfailry sack you because of their mistake nor penalise you unfailry either as that would be discriminatory so unless your looking at a glittering career in the top levels of the local HCT then its probalby a no brainer but to fight this, at least to get terms that are favourable to you.

                            JMHO

                            Glenn

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Wages Over Payment Query

                              hi Glenn

                              The cab specialist said that the argument of estoppel is extremely difficult to prove and there have been recent cases where it has failed so he advised not to try it.

                              If I could prove i had taken out some form of credit based on my earnings plus overtime I might of stood a chance but I didn't so that seems to be that.

                              My line manager and his manager are both cross over this and are going to try and get a meeting with the chief excec to see if he will wipe it but it really has left a nasty taste in the mouth.

                              Comment

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